Transport Committee on Dec. 5th, 2024

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm just reflecting on the 24,000 contaminated sites across Canada, and I suppose my question is whether the department will be reviewing other contaminated sites in the vicinity of indigenous communities to ensure that the community is aware of the status of the contaminated site.

We're talking about one community, and I think it's clear that there's been an admission by the minister and by the department that the community was not adequately notified or engaged in a possible risk to their health. There likely are sites just like this all across Canada, and I'll bet you anything that there are other communities that want to know if their health is at risk and whether the dock where they swim and collect plants is a risk to their health.

Is the department currently doing a review of all similar infrastructure and every contaminated site that's near an indigenous community to ensure that the community knows that it exists? In this case, the community wasn't aware of the contamination, and I think that's really troubling.

[Stephanie Hébert]

Mr. Chair, what I can say is yes, and I think that we have some better examples to point to of where we've had really good engagement, collaboration and participation from indigenous communities. I'll cite some examples.

The other thing is that one of the opportunities that we also have to enable this participation and support for remediation projects is that we do offer capacity funding. That's part of the divestiture process. It's also part of the remediation process, and that's to allow communities to play a role in the way that they wish to participate in the process. It's done either through grant or contribution funding or through contracting funding, and they can be things like monitoring and helping with the indigenous knowledge transfer and understanding.

What I can say is that for the Victoria Harbour remediation, a complex multi-year project that we have been doing, we have been engaging with the Songhees and the Esquimalt nations and working closely with them. We've been using vehicles through Indigenous Services Canada to be able to provide that capacity funding to the nations, and this would be one project in which their contributions and their support have been invaluable, I would say, to the success of the project.

Similarly, with the Portneuf wharf demolition—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I think our chair is trying to cut you off.

[Stephanie Hébert]

I'm sorry. I apologize, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

It's okay. That I have no powers is what I realized.

Thank you very much, Ms. Hébert.

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

We'll go to a lightning round here of three minutes for Ms. Goodridge and three minutes for Mr. Badawey.

We'll begin with you, Ms. Goodridge. The floor is yours.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think one thing that is so frustrating for the community is that there was no consultation with them when it came to this. This was something that was well known. They'd been asking for dredging for many years. Sufficient information was not provided to them.

I can guarantee that if you had told them that you had concerns regarding contamination at that site, their attitude would have changed and their solution would have been different. They would have been asking for remediation at that point in time, and they would have been asking for another solution.

[Stephanie Hébert]

Mr. Chair, we do want to do that, and I think that going forward, this will be really important with the nations in Fort Chipewyan.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I agree, but you didn't, and you guys failed. You failed the community, and this is the part that really frustrates me in all of this. We're sitting here in a space where most people in this room can't imagine the type of isolation that we're talking about in Fort Chipewyan.

We're talking about a community that is accessible by a Cessna airplane and for a couple months by a winter road. In the summertime, you can jet boat up or take a Cessna. Those are the options, so that TC port is very important for a community in getting in and out. The threat of the airport being shut down means there will be no way out, and the answer given to them was helicopter.

How...? What...? Are we talking 300 passes of a helicopter to evacuate 1,200 people? Was that the solution given?

[Stephanie Hébert]

Transport Canada was not responsible for the emergency evacuation, so I can't speak to the approach that was given.

What I can say is that with the updated guidance for the federal contaminated sites, we have updated our practices. Before, we would have notified only if there were a risk. Now when we are starting studies, either in phase one or phase two, we involve nations in the scoping of those studies at the outset. We have evolved our practices, and we will continue to do so.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Will you commit now to proactively reaching out to any community, first nation or otherwise, that is impacted by a contaminated site, yes or no?

[Stephanie Hébert]

Yes.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

You are going to proactively reach out to every single one of the 24,000 contaminated sites that are within Transport Canada's ownership.

[Stephanie Hébert]

Within Transport Canada's ownership we have 238, and our objective is to work collaboratively with the communities, including the nations.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

When the community consultation for all of those 238 have been completed, could you table that with committee?

[Stephanie Hébert]

I'm struggling with the question, because in many instances that's ongoing, and these are multi-year projects. It's not just a one-time consultation: This is ongoing work that we need to do. We'll find a way to best report to the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Hébert.

Mr. Badawey will conclude this today. Mr. Badawey, you have three minutes, sir.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Basically, I want to make it very clear that all parties that have governed since 1997 have failed. This government is now succeeding by working with the communities, as well as putting a process in place, which is what I want to touch on.

To Ms. Hébert and to all your team, well done in terms of actually identifying what has to be done.

Phases one, two and hopefully three environmental site assessments, which give us the history, will also give us the sources of those contaminants based on that history.

The second part, whether it's site-specific or community-based, is embarking on a risk assessment to then identify the CFCs, identify the risks attached to those CFCs, and then, according to the land use, the acceptable parts per million levels that will be attached to those areas. That will dictate the level of remediation based on those land use plans that the community will establish or has already established.

As my fourth point, I would expect that the participants identified as the sources of those contaminants would participate, and that the province, if need be, would issue orders under their mandate and jurisdiction to those sources of contamination to then—as my last point—enter into a remediation exercise, including financing those remediation exercises.

What I like most about what your and the minister's comments articulated is that it's going to be community-driven, first and foremost, and we'll take the lead from the community, offering our resources and provincial resources and the source's resources in driving the process with the community.

Am I accurate in that synopsis?

[Stephanie Hébert]

Yes, it will be community-driven, and we look forward to redoing some of the studies. I know the minister spoke about the fact that she's reaching out to her provincial counterpart. I can't commit the province, but the minister spoke to the fact that this outreach will be done.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank You, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the witnesses. Well done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Badawey.

On behalf of all committee members, I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for appearing before us today and answering our questions.

With that, colleagues, this meeting is adjourned. Have a great evening—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'm sorry, but wait just one second. I want to thank all of you for showing up in person. It makes our job a lot easier. I really do appreciate it. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence.

The meeting is adjourned.