Transport Committee on May 30th, 2022

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

I appreciate that. That's from 33 to 34.

Minister, the last time you were at this committee, you rightfully said that the CIB, like my colleague said, needed to “raise its game”.

This committee has recommended the dismantling of the CIB.

You committed to communicating your expectations to the bank. I want to know, for the sake of the committee, if you are seeing any improvements in the last three months. Was there any communication to the CIB?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I think the short answer, Mr. Chair, is yes.

There have been extensive and ongoing discussions with the Canada Infrastructure Bank. The board chair and the CEO are people with whom I have regular conversations and updates. They were in Ottawa and updated me about a month ago.

I have made it very clear, as have my colleagues at the table who represent our department, which is the shareholder of the bank. We have explained to them our expectations and I am very confident that we're seeing an increase, as Mr. Campbell said, month over month in terms of the bank's outreach to both potential investors and potential project advocates. We're going to see over the coming months a growing list in every part of the country. I'm obviously focused on that coming from Atlantic Canada, to ensure that we have the right regional balance in terms of where the bank is able to support projects as well.

I remain very confident that we have seen, and will see, an increased role.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Let's talk about a couple of those investments. We talked about Fortis last time.

I want to know this from a seasoned minister and from somebody who has been in and around government a long time. Do you think the investment in Fortis, a company with $9 billion or $10 billion dollars of profit, is appropriate as the main shareholder of the bank?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, our colleague Ms. Lantsman will understand that one reason we set up a structure like a crown corporation is precisely so the board of directors and the senior executives of the bank are the ones that make those individual investment decisions.

I'm not involved in the decision to allocate X million dollars to project Y. We give the bank a set of expectations. We give them direction in terms of the areas we'd like to see them work.

I am confident that the bank makes those decisions on the best interest of Canadian taxpayers.

Mr. Campbell said....

[Glenn Campbell]

The investment is actually in the project; it's not in the company, so ITC Fortis is a counterpart—

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

As a steward of our tax dollars and as a minister in the government, do you think a project like Fortis is appropriate?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

The board of directors of the Canada Infrastructure Bank thought that the project was important. I hadn't thought of it as concisely as Mr. Campbell did, but we have to be careful not to pick a series of partners in any one project and decide that is the right particular corporate entity that should participate in a particular project. That certainly doesn't feel like the role of a minister—.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

We can take away the—

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I'm sure the due diligence of the bank took all that into account.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

That's too bad. I was just getting started.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Ms. Lantsman.

Next we have Mr. Rogers.

Mr. Rogers, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister. It's good to see you today.

Minister, as you know, infrastructure needs are appearing across the country, particularly in rural and northern areas like we have in Newfoundland and Labrador, and your province of New Brunswick. We're already receiving support from the rural and northern communities infrastructure stream to upgrade roads and marine infrastructure among other things in Bonavista-Burin-Trinity, my riding of course, but there's always more to be done. Every day, Canadians know the needs best of what needs to be done.

The national infrastructure assessment is a step in the right direction to determine these needs. Could you please describe the engagement you've received from Canadians on development of this initiative and what the next steps are in its implementation?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Rogers, thank you for the question and for your leadership in advocating for some of these smaller rural communities and their particular infrastructure needs across the country. If it's true in your great riding in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and it's true in other small communities across the country.

I can tell you that I had a lengthy conversation with your premier last evening and, as I said to your colleagues on the other side of the table, Newfoundland and Labrador has a considerable balance left in its infrastructure funding. As we said to our friend from the Bloc, I said to the premier of your province that we had a very short timeline to work with the members of Parliament from his province to identify those projects where we could invest.

As you said, Mr. Rogers—and I think he referred to some conversations he had with you last week as well—in your province the Trans-Canada Highway is a critical piece of the economic infrastructure of the island that you represent. I'm very confident that with the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in the coming months we will find a great list of investments that Canada and Newfoundland and Labrador would be able to make, and some smaller municipalities that would participate in other kinds of projects.

The national infrastructure assessment was something that our government thought was important and was modelled on work that, for example, is done in Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. A number of other jurisdictions have an independent and long-term professional assessment of the infrastructure needs of communities, if it's rapid transit or water and wastewater infrastructure. We're in the process of finalizing what it would be. You'll note that in the budget a year and a few months ago we were allocated $20-some million to set up this national infrastructure assessment. We're well on our way. The first step, as you properly noted, was to consult with Canadians. I forget the exact number, but we had over 300 submissions from Canadians, many of them experts in the field. I spoke at the Canadian Society for Civil Engineering meeting in British Columbia last week. These are the kinds of people who had very thoughtful ideas. I had a conversation with them about the national infrastructure assessment.

We think there's a real appetite to participate in this work.

Mr. Rogers, I will make sure that it's not only a few big cities that drive that conversation, but that the work is also relevant in small communities like the ones you and I represent.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I truly appreciate that, Minister.

The other question I have for you is about the fixed link project that we've talked about, between Labrador and the island portion of the province.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Not between New Brunswick and P.E.I.?

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Oh, oh!

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

That's going well. It's 25 years old.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

No, I mean the one between Labrador and the island of Newfoundland. I wonder if you would give us an update. What is the status of the report that's being done examining that particular project?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Those projects are truly transformational. Our colleagues from Prince Edward Island talked to us about what it meant. It's disturbing now that people.... The bridge to P.E.I. leaves from my riding, so people go to P.E.I. on holidays, and take a day trip. They then turn around and go back to the island because of the bridge. That can be transformational to local economies and to supply chains, as per Mr. Badawey's comments.

As you'll know, Mr. Rogers, the Canada Infrastructure Bank, in its advisory and consultative capacity that Mr. Campbell spoke of, did an initial assessment of a potential fixed link between the Island of Newfoundland and Labrador. My understanding is that it has completed a preliminary assessment, or an initial assessment. That work has been given by the bank to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I look forward to having an opportunity with our colleagues from your province, and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, to look at next steps. I haven't had any specific conversations with the premier or with ministers in the provincial government, but I know that they now have at least the initial assessment based on the Infrastructure Bank's work of a year, or a year and a half, ago.

I'd be happy to get you more information on that exact project.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I would love to get that information, Minister. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Rogers.

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In the Canada-Quebec bilateral agreement for the investing in Canada infrastructure program, your government stipulates, in points 3A and 3B, that funding under the public transit infrastructure fund and the clean water and wastewater fund that are not used in phase 1 could be used for other streams of the investing in Canada infrastructure fund for Quebec.

According to the available information, about $300 million has not been spent.

Did your government transfer those funds to the remaining envelope of the investing in Canada infrastructure fund in the case of Quebec?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

We can provide specific amounts, Mr. Barsalou-Duval. We have not, however, transferred to Quebec, Ontario or other provinces amounts that have not been spent.

Are you talking about old programs from the time of the previous government?

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I am talking about the investing in Canada infrastructure program, for which an agreement was concluded in 2018, and specifically points 3A and 3B. This agreement was concluded by your government, a Liberal government.