Transport Committee on June 2nd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 21 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, February 3, 2022, the committee is meeting to study the issue of reducing red tape and costs on rural and urban Canadian airports.

Today's meeting is taking place in hybrid format, pursuant to the House Order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room or remotely using the Zoom application.

Per the directive of the Board of Internal Economy of March 10, 2022, all those attending the meeting in person must wear a mask, except for members who are at their place during proceedings.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. To those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

With regard to interpretation, for those joining on Zoom, you have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, to choose either floor, English or French audio. To those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

As a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

Appearing before the committee, for the first half of today's meeting, are Monsieur David Rheault, vice-president, government and community relations for Air Canada; Mr. Howard Liebman, senior director, government and community affairs for Air Transat; Madame Suzanne Acton-Gervais, interim president and chief executive officer of the National Airlines Council of Canada; and Andy Gibbons, director, government relations and regulatory affairs for WestJet Airlines Limited.

Witnesses, on behalf of the committee, I'd like to welcome you to our committee today and thank you in advance for your testimony.

We will now begin the opening remarks with the National Airlines Council of Canada.

You have five minutes, and the floor is yours.

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais, Interim President and Chief Executive Officer, National Airlines Council of Canada]

Good morning, members of the committee, and thank you for the invitation.

My name is Suzanne Acton-Gervais. With me today are some members of the National Airlines Council of Canada's executive committee and board of directors: Mr. David Rheault, vice-president, Government and Community Relations, Air Canada; Mr. Howard Liebman, senior director, Government and Community Affairs, Air Transat; and Mr. Andy Gibbons, vice-president, Government and Regulatory Affairs, WestJet.

The National Airlines Council of Canada is an association of Canada's four largest passenger airlines: Air Canada, WestJet, Air Transat and Jazz Aviation.

As airlines, we operationalize and implement policies on behalf of the federal government.

Prior to the pandemic, the council members collectively carried more than 80 million passengers per year. Airports were experiencing unprecedented growth and passenger volumes. Canadians were better connected to each other and to the world than ever before.

Few industries have been as impacted by the pandemic as Canada's airlines and their workers. We were the first hit, the hardest hit and the last to recover. ln order to recover, airlines must be competitive in a global context.

Our members serve over 302 destinations across the world. However, Canada's legacy public health restrictions, many of which remain in place exclusively for travel, set us apart from a growing list of over 50 countries that have removed barriers to travel altogether.

Since the outset of the pandemic, airlines have worked to protect employee and passenger health. Our most valuable asset will always be our people, and the airline sector needs more workers to support the return to travel. However, we rely on the Government of Canada to process credentials for airline workers and travellers at a speed that keeps pace with Canadian travellers' needs and our member airlines' operations. Transport Canada, the Canada Border Services Agency, the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, Service Canada, airports and Nav Canada all need to be properly resourced to ensure that travel and tourism can resume to prepandemic levels.

Travellers need confidence that their journey can be predictable, timely and enjoyable, with clear service standards. Recent reports of backlogs at airports and excessive wait times are concerning, and must be immediately addressed and rectified by the federal government.

We are meeting today during tourism week in Canada. We welcome the supportive statements made by the Prime Minister, the Minister of Tourism and others. However, I would say to them that one of the most important actions they can take right now to support Canadian tourism is to address the untenable situation at our airports.

Before I conclude, I would note that Canada's airlines are customers of Canadian airports and of Nav Canada. ln Canada, it is well documented that high taxes and fees imposed on Canadian airlines and travellers create a competitive disadvantage for Canada's aviation industry versus other jurisdictions. These include airport rents, air traveller security charges, airport improvement fees, Nav Canada navigation fees and city taxes, among others. The pandemic highlighted flaws in Canada's user-pay model and exacerbated this competitive disadvantage.

Facing fewer travellers during the pandemic, a number of institutions increased their fees to compensate. When combined, these fees hamstring the aviation sector and associated local economic benefits. The federal government could take the immediate step of reviewing all third party fees and charges and consider reinvesting these amounts back into the airports.

With the continued cooperation of the federal government, Canada's airlines will contribute to a return to the connected lifestyle that matters to all of us. We need to connect people to each other and Canada to the world to keep our economy moving.

Thank you.

We look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Acton-Gervais.

Mr. Dowdall will begin today's questioning.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to take this opportunity to thank all of our witnesses here for their testimony. I think this is a pretty important study that we're doing to look at reducing red tape.

My first questions are going to be for Mr. Gibbons. On February 15, WestJet released a statement saying:

The WestJet Group will continue to advocate, based on science and data, for the removal of all measures impacting fully-vaccinated air travellers.

Can you tell me if WestJet presently believes that the government is following science and data in its continued enforcement of measures aimed at unvaccinated and vaccinated Canadians?

[Andy Gibbons, Vice-President, Government and Regulatory Affairs, WestJet Airlines Ltd.]

Good afternoon, and thank you very much for having me today. It's great to have these discussions.

Your question was whether our company believes the government is following science.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

That's correct. That was stated on February 15.

[Andy Gibbons]

There's been a big debate about this. I think that's why, for many months, we've encouraged the government to table the public health advice it received from Dr. Tam and others, because our greatest lament during COVID is the unfortunate politicization of travel. We don't blame anyone for this, but I think everyone in this room knows that politicized travel has been a highly charged issue. That has been very unfortunate.

We need to depoliticize it. We need to deconstruct it a bit and make sure every Canadian, every parliamentarian, every stakeholder and every employer has that information, so that it can be crystal clear what is public health advice and a public health directive and what is not. That's been a request since day one.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Okay, so then on May 31, WestJet CEO Alexis von Hoensbroech tweeted the following:

Vaccine mandate for air travellers and employees needs to be dropped. As vaccines are not preventing the spreading of the virus since #omicron, there is no more logic to maintain it. This will also relax some of the operational challenges at the airports

Is this now the official position of WestJet?

[Andy Gibbons]

It is the position of WestJet. I can confirm that. As it relates to operational matters, which is what we're talking about today—the red tape, backlogs, and what's happening at our airports across the country—the CBSA and CATSA and the minister have all said that labour shortages are one of the major issues for the backlogs. We don't have a number, but there are potentially hundreds and hundreds of CATSA screeners who are unemployed as a result of the vaccine mandate.

The question we have, rightfully and legitimately, for the government is this: Can those individuals come back to work and help with this situation? We think the answer should be “yes”.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

As a follow-up to that, it almost seems like it's not science but political science; I guess that's what you're saying.

Approximately how many employees lost their jobs at WestJet during the pandemic?

[Andy Gibbons]

We've been public about this. Over 300 employees lost their jobs because of the mandate.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Were those 300 directly linked to the mandate?

[Andy Gibbons]

That's correct.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Okay. How many cases of any of the variants of COVID-19 have been traced to a trip on one of your aircraft?

[Andy Gibbons]

None that we are aware of, but I believe Dr. Tam has been very public about transmissibility rates on aircraft. That's one of the major issues we have, Mr. Dowdall. Suzanne mentioned in her opening remarks the discrepancy between how an air traveller is treated and how every other consumer activity in Canada is treated. There's no random testing at Rogers Centre. There's no random testing at the grocery store. There's no random testing anywhere in Canadian society except in aviation, and our safety record is exemplary. We're just asking legitimate questions.

At the same time, I always have to say that we are an exceptional partner to the government. We implement their programs. We work with their public health agency. We work with Transport Canada. This is not a fractious relationship. It's a very strong partnership, but there are irritants, very clearly.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

I have one more question. Do you think the ongoing pandemic regulations in Canada are putting WestJet at a disadvantage versus other carriers outside of Canada?

[Andy Gibbons]

I think we can have lots of conversations about competitiveness. I think everyone, from the minister to every parliamentarian from every party, agrees that the challenge before us is that we need to have a more seamless recovery. People will be discouraged from booking if they think their family and their children have to wait on the tarmac for two hours just to get into a customs hall. Business travellers may not go to that conference in Toronto or Vancouver or Regina, because they're concerned about the wait.

We really need to address those. I think everyone wants the same thing. Everyone has to pitch in here and really address these issues.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Rheault, I have a question for you as well. When you testified at this committee on February 4, 2021, you said, “Air Canada is a strong proponent of a science-based, data-driven reopening of our borders. It can be done safely.” Do you believe the continued government-imposed airport testing and mandates are science-based and data-driven at this time?

[David Rheault, Vice-President, Government and Community Relations, Air Canada]

We have always been in favour of implementing measures that are based on science and data to enable the return and recovery of air transport.

Obviously, as my colleague mentioned, another important aspect is that there should be consistency between the measures applicable to air transport and those applicable to other sectors. The state of emergency has been lifted in all Canadian provinces and economic activities are no longer subject to health restrictions. So we think the policies, restrictions, and health measures that currently apply to air travel should be reviewed to ensure that they are consistent not only with what is happening elsewhere in the Canadian economy, but also with the measures in place in other countries.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rheault.

Thank you very much, Mr. Dowdall.

Mr. Badawey, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

I'll preface my questions by saying that, for the most part, when we're embarking on a study like this.... Not to be political, but taking in some of the comments made and positions already taken, I want to concentrate on the irritants. Of course, with that said, I also want to concentrate on the challenges with respect to delays, some of the barriers already mentioned—why those barriers are in place—and implications.

For example, we heard in the past that the spread of COVID-19 among passengers, employees and supply chains resulted in some cancellations and delays in the airline industry. How do we deal with that? How do we ensure that airlines can participate in our travel economy in a seamless manner? How do we get people to move around comfortably?

I have a couple of questions. I'll concentrate these questions on Ms. Acton-Gervais's responsibility on behalf of many of the airlines.

First, I understand that part of the problem relates to traveller behaviour. Specifically, people used to plan their travel months ahead of time, but now wait much later to reserve their tickets. Ms. Acton-Gervais, have you observed this, in particular? That's the first question. The second question is, do you have any data you can share with the committee about this particular issue?

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

Canadians are eager to travel and the world is eager to come to Canada. This is good news. The announcement made by the Canadian government on April 1, dropping the requirement for predeparture testing to enter Canada.... There was definitely a direct link between this alleviation and the increase in bookings. Nevertheless, in our view, as I said, more needs to be done. The phenomenon of people waiting until the last minute to book travel is based on the lack of predictability and consistency. If we were able to address some of this, it would help instill further confidence in travellers.

When it comes to data, I would be happy to take your question under consideration and follow up with you after the committee.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

I appreciate your taking that under consideration. I would actually expect it to be followed up on. That way, we can act on it...with the recommendations we're going to present to the minister and, therefore, the decisions the minister will make, to some extent, on your behalf.

My next question is about tracking. There have been comments made about science. Of course, we would expect the health department, as well as Ms. Tam, to make their thoughts and their recommendations known, based on science. That's their job. The comments made by people, politicians, industry leaders.... To some extent, I would be very curious about what science they are bringing forward as a basis for those comments.

My next question goes to that. How does the industry track the issue internationally? Is there one organization that compiles information about airport delays? Are there consistent metrics used to measure performance, etc.? Can you touch on that?

[Suzanne Acton-Gervais]

The International Air Transport Association is the airline trade association that represents the world's airlines—over 290 airlines globally. It tracks this information.

From the perspective of tracking and public health, we are not public health experts, of course. We are aviation experts. However, what we can say is that approximately 1% of COVID importation at the air border has been attributed to air travel. This was the catalyst for some of the decision-making on April 1 about removing the predeparture testing.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you for that. To some extent, it proves that what's been put in place has been working.

My last question, Ms. Acton-Gervais, is with respect to, in a broader sense, how the airlines survived the pandemic. I know it's been a challenging time. There's no question. However, you're here and they're here. Can you give me some comments? I'm asking this question not just about what is happening today but what may happen in the future and how we could react better in the future.

How did the airlines get past the pandemic? How do you look at yourselves, moving forward? What more can we do to help you move forward?