Transport Committee on Oct. 17th, 2022

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

That may be another problem. If you have a slew of unions each having to negotiate with the employer—which CATSA is not because it is considered the client seeking out the services of the subcontractors—it makes it impossible to communicate.

Is that accurate?

[Luc Julien]

Yes, that's exactly right.

What complicates things is that, in Canada, CATSA contracts out the work to three agencies, Allied Universal Security Services, Securitas and GardaWorld, putting CATSA in the position of client.

Fortunately, this year, we managed to bring together the screening officers in eastern Canada, covering 26 airports. That's what we are trying to do for all the screening officers the United Steelworkers union represents, who work in 42 airports across the country.

It's definitely complicated because there are different employers in different places and because we are always negotiating with the subcontractor.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Is there a lot of difference in the working conditions from one airport to another, or from one agency to another?

Might that also impact the work of screening officers?

[Luc Julien]

The real issue is the power imbalance with the subcontractors. There used to be a set model. In other words, the wages paid in small airports were comparable, and those paid in the big airports were a bit higher.

Place of work aside, you can appreciate that, in Montreal, the competition for workers is fierce and everyone is fighting for them. I think people would accept lower-paying jobs just so they don't have to work at Montréal-Trudeau International Airport, because getting there is a lot of trouble.

The wages are comparable across the country, but the problem is the attempt to target one place in particular and impose the same working conditions elsewhere. That doesn't make sense because every province has its own economic challenges.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

We saw all the media reports this summer showing the chaos in airports. It was a nightmare, and you said the problem hasn't been fixed.

I actually travelled out of the country last week, and I saw it for myself. The lines were still long. Things may not have been as bad as they were, but the problem is still there.

Is there anything the government can do in the short term to alleviate things?

I saw people in line rolling their eyes. Other countries, though, don't have a problem anymore. Everything is running quite smoothly, whether it be in Finland, France or elsewhere in the European Union.

Why are we still dealing with the same problems we saw this summer?

[Luc Julien]

Immediate investments are needed to improve working conditions. It's not just about attracting new workers. It's also about not losing the workers and expertise we have now. The reason you're seeing lineups is that we've lost experienced people.

The first step is to invest in better working conditions, and the government can do that through CATSA.

Something else that's important is recognizing the value of the work officers do. They aren't just people handling baggage. The government needs to recognize their value throughout the process. That includes the entire time the collective agreement is in effect, not just during the bargaining process.

The public needs to be educated about the fact that screening officers provide services on the government's behalf. They aren't to blame for the lineups. Those things would make a big difference in the working conditions of airport screening officers.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Would you agree that the people who work in airports under the government's authority ensure the safety of the entire population?

As I see it, a screening officer's work has all the characteristics of a job that should be performed by a government employee. Why do you think that isn't the case?

Doesn't that have consequences on public safety, especially when it comes to worker training? The private sector may not have the same training standards.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Unfortunately, we don't have time to hear the answer.

You'll get another turn, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval. Next time, you'll have two and a half minutes.

Thank you.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of our witnesses.

I, too, will be directing my questions to Mr. Julien. I wanted to start by acknowledging and thanking your members and all of the security screening officers across Canada who have been working under tremendously challenging conditions over the past two years.

If you listen to the Minister of Transport, he'd have you believe that the situation at our airports is fixed and that things have gotten much better. I take it from your testimony today that you disagree and that your members have a different experience. Can you expand on why the situation at our airports is not fixed?

[Luc Julien]

In the spring, I was surprised to hear that the delays in airports were due to the fact that people had forgotten how to travel. The real problem is the lack of staff, and it hasn't been fixed.

Right now isn't a great time to travel. The Montreal airport is short a hundred or so employees. In other airports, the word is that workers have been hired and everything will get better, but that's an illusion. There is no guarantee that the people who were hired during a less chaotic travel period will be able to deal with the pressure of the holidays, March break or next summer.

In some airports, the problem is considered to be fixed, but I say it's an illusion to think the problem can be fixed simply by replacing workers with five or 10 years of experience with new hires.

If nothing is done, the problem will get worse every year. Screening officers who left for jobs with better working conditions performed their duties more efficiently than their replacements can thanks to the experience and skills they had gained over the years.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Julien, one of the things I've heard from security officers is that the job of being a security screener used to be a very attractive airport career and that over time that picture has changed. Now there are other jobs at the airport that are more attractive and involve fewer of the stresses you mentioned earlier. Is that something your workers tell you? Is that something your members have expressed?

[Luc Julien]

The competition for skilled workers is definitely fierce.

Employees have rotating schedules, seven days a week; they have no choice. The pay is less and less competitive. When there are lineups, the public is often impatient, and rightfully so. Employees are constantly being monitored and tested, since a mistake can have serious consequences for everyone. All of that makes for an increasingly stressful environment to work in. Add understaffing to that, and it's not surprising that officers are afraid of making mistakes. Some even quit their jobs for the same or lower pay elsewhere. They find it easier to work Monday to Friday, without the pressure of always having to account for their actions.

Workers are in high demand not just to fill jobs within the airport sector, but also to fill good jobs within the job market in general. Employers are scooping up our skilled workers, so we have to start that training and development process all over again with new people.

The situation is certainly worrisome. These are people whose job it is to keep Canadians safe. That should be the priority, so we don't have these unfortunate situations. Prioritizing security is a political decision. I'm not saying this will happen, but underfunding the sector and always pushing people to work faster necessarily increases the risk of something bad happening.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The federal government provided, I believe, $300 million to CATSA to support the agency through the pandemic. CATSA turned around and used part of that money for the summer attendance incentive program you mentioned. Other countries around the world have taken different approaches when it comes to the situations at their airports.

How would you have used those public funds more effectively to improve the situation at our airports?

[Luc Julien]

The first thing I would say is that employee representatives weren't involved in negotiating the bonus CATSA provided.

The United Steelworkers union represents workers at 42 airports. The bonus program was brought in unilaterally. That money could have been used to negotiate fairer conditions and encourage people to stay in their jobs over the summer. I truly believe that the money could have been used to negotiate a much fairer agreement with all the parties, the private firms, CATSA and the United Steelworkers union. Instead, the program was a total disaster.

If an employee had to take their child to the hospital, they didn't get their attendance bonus. Under the program, even if an employee took time off for an approved reason, they missed out on the bonus. That's completely unacceptable, and we won't go through another summer under a similar program.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

In terms of accountability, one of the challenges we've had is figuring out where the buck stops, because there are so many players and they all point fingers at each other. It's hard to figure out where the change needs to be made.

I wonder, for our report and for the purpose of our recommendations moving forward, what your specific recommendation would be for the government to improve the working conditions for security screeners. How should that take place?

[Luc Julien]

Under the current regime, the government needs to give employee representatives access to CATSA. That is the organization with the federal mandate to invest in airports and security.

Most of our demands have to do with money, because that's where the quickest impact is felt. However, a myriad of steps can be taken to organize the work more effectively, provide a better work-life balance and thus make the job more appealing. Right now, we have to contend with the agencies—I'm not trying to point the finger at them—and the agencies, in turn, get their mandate from CATSA.

First, the government needs to give CATSA the resources to fix the problem around collective bargaining.

Second, the government needs to make a serious effort to improve working conditions overall, as well as the working atmosphere. That means recognizing the tremendous value of the work these officers do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Julien.

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Next we have Mr. Strahl, and before you begin, Mr. Strahl, I welcome you to the transport committee for the first time.

The floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you very much. I'll jump right into it.

Last fall, in November, my communities of Chilliwack and Hope discovered very quickly, after floods and mudslides, the value of the supply chain, the trucking industry, train traffic and everything else when we found our shelves and gas stations completely empty within a couple of days. You don't realize how much material that is and how much you rely on the supply chain until it's completely taken away from you. We thank everyone for everything they do to supply those communities behind the scenes.

We've heard a bit here about how this is not... I think part of the problem is that the trucking sector is not seen as a priority. I think there's a bit of a stigma around it, quite frankly, and people are not encouraged to seek it out, even though, as we've heard, there are going to be jobs. Someone who went into that sector would have good employment for the rest of their career, should they choose to do it.

Mr. Millian, you said we need to declare professional driving to be a skilled trade. Who needs to make that declaration? Is it the federal government or is it provincial institutions? What body needs to make that declaration so that more funding or more opportunities can be opened up for professional drivers?

[Michael Millian]

I'll attempt to answer that, and then if I get something wrong, I'll let Angela Splinter from Trucking HR Canada jump in. This is one of their areas of main skill.

I believe it's the provinces. When you have a NOC code put together, the feds can do it, but the provinces also have to do it. What we've always seen is that if you have a program that affects people coast to coast, even if it's the provinces that eventually have to implement it, it's always better to get the federal government and all the provinces working together on a committee to put codes in place that will allow this to be done on a consistent basis, no matter where you are in the country. It's almost like you consider it a Red Seal trade, like you have for mechanics, and you do an apprenticeship-type model.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Would I be correct that there is a similar issue with the insurance situation you brought up? Would there also be federal-provincial interest there as well? Would the provinces need to be a part of that?

[Michael Millian]

Well, yes, and they have been working on some solutions for it. Insurance is a private business in a lot of provinces. That's where it becomes a real issue.

If we have government-funded insurance like you have in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and B.C., it's not quite as much of an issue, but when you have it in the other markets, where it's highly competitive and it gets quite litigious, it becomes an issue. I understand the insurance companies' point of view too. They're not in business to lose money, but it's affecting our sector to the point where it's almost impossible to get somebody young into the industry.

We see that our workforce continues to age and age. If the new drivers coming in are already 40 or 50 years old, it's not doing much to bring the average age of our workforce down. We need people to be able to get into it when they're young.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

I will go to Ms. Splinter now.

On the issue of driver training, if you look at job postings, they want two years of driving experience or five years of experience, or experience driving through the mountains in the snow and that kind of stuff.

How do you bridge the gap between getting someone their class 1 and getting them a job that's going to solve some of the problems we're talking about here today? It's not just a ticket that's worthless. They can't get job experience if they can't get behind the wheel. How do we do that?

[Angela Splinter]

Just getting your commercial driver's licence does not mean you're ready to drive a 53-foot trailer down the highway—mountain passes and dangerous goods or not, period. You're not fully equipped. We need to bridge that gap.

I would say, to Mike's point, that at the provincial level, there's entry-level training. What we're looking to do is get consistency at that occupational level of training. When a new driver comes into a fleet and they have their commercial driver's licence, they need at least a couple of months with another trained driver to get them worthy. What we need is consistency. We need all stakeholders at the table. We need insurance at the table.

To answer your question as to who decides when this gets recognized as a skilled occupation, I believe that also has to come from the industry. We have to be a part of that solution too. We need buy-in across the industry on what the occupational level standard looks like that makes it a skilled trade.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Splinter and Mr. Strahl.

Next we have Mr. Chahal.

Mr. Chahal, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.