Transport Committee on Oct. 17th, 2022

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to everybody new to the committee. I look forward to working with you.

Thank you to everyone for your testimony today.

I'm going to start with questions regarding immigration and with what we are doing as a federal government, focusing on what we're not doing in immigration to address labour shortages in the transportation sector. I want to start with that first.

We need to bring new workers in. One of my colleagues made the comment that 27% of new truckers are from newcomer communities. I want to start with that. Is the data point accurate? What can we do to help get more workers?

I will start with you, Ms. Splinter.

[Angela Splinter]

That is accurate. We have a higher number of new Canadians working in our sector compared to the labour force overall. These are people who have come to and settled in Canada and have experience from another country. We need to make sure that we are putting these workers into safe work environments and working with reputable employers. I think we need to do more work there.

I don't know if you want to get into the temporary foreign worker program, but it is the one program that our industry is looking at to get some more workers coming in. Obviously, right now we're doing a good job of reaching new Canadians.

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

On that specifically, how can we tailor a program to support the labour shortages using the temporary foreign worker program? What would that look like, from a recommendation perspective, when looking at safety, having the right training and having those folks do that work?

[Angela Splinter]

We actually did a report in, I believe, 2017—Craig might correct me on the year—offering recommendations on what the temporary foreign worker program could do to better service our industry.

Training is an issue. Once an individual comes over, they still have to go through mandatory entry-level training, which takes time. That starts cutting into the time they are here to work.

We could do a better job of helping integrate them into communities. The path to permanent residency is also really important, as is educating employers on how to better integrate these new workers into their workplaces more efficiently and faster.

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Millian, I want to go to you.

We've talked a lot about harmonizing training or credentials and Red Seal programs across the country. Is that an issue here in Canada? Is that something we could look at doing in the transportation sector to make sure that harmonization occurs across the country and potentially even with the U.S.?

[Michael Millian]

Yes, and if we're looking at the training end, there are two different routes to it. We have the mandatory entry-level training that all the provinces and territories have agreed on, which is a minimum of 103.5 hours. We don't have it in every jurisdiction in Canada yet, but it's heading there. I believe that in B.C. it's the highest. They are up to 141 hours. So we have the entry-level training we're working on, but what we really need to think about is pre-licence training and post-licence training, which is kind of what Angela mentioned. Your mandatory entry-level training gets you your licence so that you can get behind the wheel and hopefully get a job. Now we need to work on the Red Seal or post-licence training.

Yes, we do need a consistent standard on it. If you get entry-level training in Ontario and now you want to drive coast to coast across Canada, there's no way you've ever seen a mountain pass. You can access some pretty good hills in northern Ontario, but you have not seen the mountains that you're going to go through in British Columbia. No matter what region of the country you get your licence in, you're not going to have seen all the other areas of the country. We need that four- to six-week mentoring program where we have consistent standards and where they get hired on. Then a company mentors them, trains and finishes.

There are many good companies out there that do it now. The problem is that there are also all sorts of companies that don't do it and just throw some of these workers—I'll say it—out to the wolves, because we have a lack of enforcement and oversight that goes on. We see it with the temporary foreign workers who come in as well. They get taken advantage of in some cases.

We need these workers here, but we need them to be treated fairly by proper companies that do proper training. Some of the individuals we bring over get taken advantage of as soon they show up here. They aren't properly trained. Then they don't help solve our shortage because they get disillusioned and leave the industry. We have to make sure that the introduction to our country and this industry is proper. That comes with consistent entry-level training and post-licence training.

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

How do we deal with insurance? That's an issue for the industry across the country, because it is a provincial jurisdiction. There are different ways of doing that across the country. What do you hope to see nationally that we can do to make it easier for folks to drive and get insurance?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Give a 15-second response, please, Mr. Millian.

[Michael Millian]

One thing that would help is to have the insurance, as Angela mentioned, as part of this committee. In a lot of cases, insurers will insure these younger drivers if they're with a company that has very well-laid-out policies and procedures in their post-licence training program. A lot of the bigger companies have that access, and it's harder for the smaller ones to have it. If we come up with a standard, then it's available to all of the industry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chahal.

Thank you very much, Mr. Millian.

We now go to Mr. Barsalou‑Duval for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Julien, I asked you a number of questions earlier, but I would've liked to hear you comment on the labour shortage. My question is for Mr. Millian.

Much of the labour shortage is attributed to the challenges associated with worker retention and retirement.

Do you think giving older, experienced, workers a tax break would provide the financial incentive they need to stay in the workforce longer? Do you think that's something that could help?

[Luc Julien]

People who work at the airport now certainly don't have a big pension plan. That may give them an incentive to stay on the job, but the benefits have to outweigh the drawbacks.

You'll understand that, if the work is too hard, people will leave, even if you give them a tax credit.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Millian, I don't know if you understood the question. Concerning truckers, is this something that would help your industry?

[Michael Millian]

Just to make sure I understood the question, you're asking about a tax credit simply for the older drivers to help retain them longer, instead of seeing them going into retirement. Is that what you're asking?

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Yes, that's right.

[Michael Millian]

Any time you can give somebody a break, it may keep them around for a bit longer. I don't know if it would be a long-term solution to solve our shortage and I don't know how many it would keep around on a short-term basis, because I think once they hit that retirement age, they're probably working because they want to or they need to. If they need to, then maybe the tax credit will keep them around, but if they want to be here, they'll be here anyway.

Ultimately, any time you can keep some extra money in their pockets, it helps, but I don't think this would have a big effect on how many would stay around at this point.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Splinter, you mentioned earlier that you facilitate the process of recruiting foreign workers, particularly in the trucking industry.

Is processing time an issue? Employers often report being discouraged by the slow process.

Do you have any comments on this?

[Angela Splinter]

I would agree, absolutely. The process time is a concern. It takes a long time. These employers have invested in finding these drivers. They've even gone overseas to meet them, and then it could take up to a yea, and then they lose that driver. They're losing money on those recruitment efforts as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have 15 seconds left.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Julien, a lot of the focus from the federal government has been on attracting and hiring new security screeners for our airports. You mentioned this in your introduction.

You also mentioned the challenge of retaining good people if we don't address the conditions of work at our airports. Are you hearing from your members, especially members who have been hired more recently, that this is already a concern—that there's going to be difficulty in retaining the workers who have been hired over the past number of months in the pandemic?

[Luc Julien]

Yes, that is the case now.

I don't know the exact workforce retention rate, but I do know that we would have to hire a number of employees to get a sufficient pool of workers in a few months.

If we hire 30 people, it would be surprising if they were all still with us in six months. That's not the situation at the airports I know. We have to hire a lot of employees to make sure we retain some of them for the long term.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Among the work conditions that are a concern, which would you say is the biggest concern for your members? Is it compensation? Is it the percentage of new workers versus experienced workers? Is it some of the concerns we've heard around access to breaks during the day? What is the number one concern when it comes to conditions of work?

[Luc Julien]

Apart from salary conditions, insurance and the pension plan, it is mostly about the pressure they have to endure and the rotating schedules, which vary according to operational needs. This makes it difficult for many officers to balance work and family. There is much that could be done with regard to scheduling.

In addition, breaks are limited. Because airports are large, breaks should be facilitated. This is a significant issue for members.