Transport Committee on Feb. 28th, 2022

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, I thank Mr. Barsalou‑Duval for his question.

The country was indeed tremendously concerned by the fires in western Canada and by the floods that destroyed infrastructure in British Columbia last fall. Those are examples of rebuilding megaprojects, and we can all work together to build resilience through those projects. As you are saying, that does not change the fact that we need to invest in smaller projects that are directly related to climate change.

I was not aware of the ice bridge situation in your riding. However, New Brunswick has the exact same kind of a problem. My colleagues have often told me about the ferry that crosses to Rivière‑du‑Loup, making it possible to get to New Brunswick.

So we are seeing infrastructure that was once adequate, but that, for financial or other reasons, can no longer be supported today by small municipalities or community groups that used to ensure its operation.

I will not hide the fact that the federal government could buy ferries. Provincial premiers have suggested this to me. They are apparently using the example of the CTMA ferry, which goes to the Îles‑de‑la‑Madeleine.

It would be my pleasure to discuss these kinds of issues with you, as I am very interested in them. The example is pretty interesting.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you for the answer, Minister.

I am rather talking about ferries on waterways, such as rivers, where it was once possible to manage ice bridges. Of course, I am not talking about places with a very large distance to cover, as in the case of the Îles‑de‑la‑Madeleine. To get there, you practically have to cross the ocean, or at least part of the Gulf of St. Lawrence. So I'm talking about specific cases, which are surely found on the Ottawa River, for instance.

My second question for you is about the active transportation fund. Your government has been working on that for over a year, and that is very honourable. This is a $400‑million fund for projects. A number of announcements have been made concerning the fund. However, no agreement has been signed with Quebec to give it access to the fund in order to implement active transportation initiatives.

In my riding, for example, the City of Boucherville would like to build a bike path along the Louis‑Hippolyte‑La Fontaine bridge-tunnel to give pedestrians and cyclists access to the Îles de Boucherville. This is a major project that has been generating a great deal of enthusiasm in the community, but the city cannot submit a request to get access to that kind of funding.

Will a relevant agreement soon be signed with Quebec? That would be important for the province.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I completely agree with that.

A week or two ago, I had pretty encouraging discussions on this with Quebec Minister Sonia LeBel. We discussed that program in particular, as well as other issues related to housing. I definitely don't want us to be in a situation where highly valuable projects in other regions may be carried out more quickly than projects that are just as valuable in Quebec, be it in Boucherville, which I am somewhat familiar with, or in other regions of the province. I am convinced that we will find a solution. That underpinned the very informative conversation I had with Ms. LeBel, a person I really like. Our senior officials actually met specifically to discuss a potential agreement.

I don't want us to end up missing the construction season, which will begin in a month or two. Many of those projects can move forward over the next few months.

So everyone is getting to work. I am very optimistic.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

That's great.

The simplest solution would be to transfer directly to the Government of Quebec its portion. That way, it would have access to the funding.

My understanding is that people have until March 31 to submit a request, so I am worried that Quebec may not be able to have access to an adequate portion of the funding by then. The money should not be sent elsewhere, leaving Quebec with crumbs.

Can you assure us that this won't happen?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I can assure you that we will not transfer money to the Government of Quebec with no visibility or with no role for the Government of Canada. I actually teased Ms. LeBel about that. She was talking about block transfers. I told her that we were allergic to blocks. We had a laugh over that.

So we want to transfer money to Quebec, but we will find an agreement, as we have done for a number of other sectors, such as housing and infrastructure. Quebec's priorities will be respected. We will approve projects that will benefit Quebec citizens together, be it in your riding or elsewhere in the province.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I would like to ask another question—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval and Minister.

The next six minutes go to Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is now yours.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister. It's great to have a minister from a rural riding who understands the needs of rural communities.

If you know about the place that I represent, it's a very rural place, very spread out, and with many small communities that have infrastructure needs. I have a lot of questions on a whole suite of topics, but I want to start out with the community of Stewart, on the northern coast of British Columbia, right up against the Alaskan border.

I was talking with the community leaders. They have a lot of challenges with high-speed Internet; they don't have it. They have low-speed Internet. The local service provider that provides fixed wireless solutions for the residents is totally maxed out. People get five-megabyte service, and there's so little broadband available that the service provider can't add any new customers, so the community can't attract any new residents or any new business.

Now, the local service provider applied to your universal broadband fund with a solution that would have increased service for the residents and allowed the community to expand; however, the government turned down their application. I'm wondering if you can speak directly to the residents and the community leaders in Stewart and tell them what the path forward is. What role will the federal government play to ensure that they get high-speed Internet, given that the government has turned down the application that the community supported moving forward?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, I'm a bit familiar with your riding. I grew up as the son of a fisheries minister in the seventies and eighties. We spent an enormous amount of time travelling with our dad to communities big and small on all of Canada's coasts, and obviously I have been back numerous times in my current role, so I'm familiar with your constituency a bit.

I'm not familiar with the specific issue in the town of Stewart, but it identifies a much broader problem, as you correctly note. The Infrastructure Bank was able to contribute at one point to some broadband accessibility and connectivity in the province of Manitoba. The universal broadband fund, as you said, has done a number of projects, often in partnership with provinces. The big ones—Ontario and Quebec—have suited up.

I've had conversations with Premier Horgan specifically on how we can work together and use the universal broadband fund or other infrastructure types of investments to support what is a critical, critical piece, as you said, not only of the economic and social development of these communities, but it's now becoming part of virtual medical care. There are so many reasons why this is critical infrastructure now. I'd be happy to look at the particular case of Stewart and get back to you to see, Mr. Bachrach, what we can do to follow up on that one example, unless any of the officials who are joining us have—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

My time is very short here, Minister, so if you don't mind, I think I'll move on to the next question—

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

But I would be happy to get back to you with that specific example of Stewart.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I really appreciate it. Looking into it would be much appreciated.

My next question is about the active transportation fund. I think a lot of communities really welcome the creation of that fund, but there's some frustration with it as well. Smaller communities especially are struggling with the very short application window. I believe it's a nine-week application window. Given that the ATF is a five-year program, will there be another application period for communities that aren't able to apply in this first window?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Absolutely. Again, one of the challenges—and maybe we have similar constituencies—is that the smaller communities often don't have the in-house capacity in a municipal government or a community group to be able to fill out endless bureaucratic pages and different analyses, some of them engineering documents. I think we have a built-in dysfunction around the capacity of different groups—usually smaller centres—to be able to access these programs, so I'm working with the department to figure out a way that we can perhaps extend some capacity-building to these groups.

To your point about the active transportation fund, our colleague Andy Fillmore from Halifax was working with former minister McKenna, who was a big champion of this, and absolutely, we're not going to create a situation where one deadline [Technical difficulty—Editor] to get a first tranche of projects out will close the door on other communities being able to apply. As I said, I think we'll go further by actually figuring out a way that we can give resources to the smaller communities so that they're not frustrated or end up submitting something that's incomplete, and then end up in a situation where it's denied, as opposed to being approved, because the application was missing a particular technical document that a group of volunteers can't put together.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Very briefly on that, Minister, I think the expectation is that the fund is going to be oversubscribed in the first intake. Is it the government's intention to have a second intake even though it will be oversubscribed for the first one?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Yes. I will not authorize all of the funds to be expended in the first intake.

Mr. Bachrach, we live in eternal hope that these funds can also be increased.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Yes, absolutely, and I would support that fully, Minister.

As my last question, on the active transportation fund, applicants are wondering when the criteria and the evaluation process are going to be made available. We're over four weeks into what is, I believe, a nine-week application window, yet applicants still aren't clear on how the department will evaluate their proposals.

Is that information going to be forthcoming?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I hope so.

Mr. Bachrach, perhaps the deputy minister can give you a very precise answer on that. I don't know that.

Kelly, do you have a precise answer for Taylor?

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you, Minister.

I don't have an exact date, but I will get one for you very quickly. I know the department is working on it. A number of webinars and information have recently been put on the website and we are answering a number of questions from recipients across the country.

I will ask the department for a date and see if I can get one before the end of this session.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thanks, Ms. Gillis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach, and Ms. Gillis.

To kick off the second round of questioning today, we have Mr. Muys.

Mr. Muys, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Minister, let me echo the sentiments of all in wishing you a speedy recovery. Best wishes in that.

Getting back to the mandate letter, because we have gone down the bunny trail on some specific projects, it tasked you with removing internal trade barriers and reducing supply chain bottlenecks in Canada's transportation networks. We know from discussions over the years that red tape and duplication of regulations have certainly been identified as major barriers to internal trade.

Maybe you can speak a little bit about how you're going to address that, maybe specifically what some of the hurdles are that you're going to reduce and plan on eliminating.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Muys, it's a very important part of the mandate I have as the intergovernmental affairs minister for the reasons you said. It does seem strange that there are...and every Liberal and Conservative government for the last 20 years has made significant progress, but we don't seem to be able to get the fine series of exemptions to the Canada free trade accord that was signed five or six years ago. There are still schedules attached to it that list a whole series of exemptions where different governments advance a particular reason why we can't have across the country a true free trade context.

To your point, you're absolutely right. I share entirely your connection of that issue to some of the fragility of supply chains that we have seen during COVID and certainly during some of the events of the last number of weeks.

I remain quite optimistic. My colleague François-Philippe Champagne and I have a number of provincial and territorial ministers who would be our counterparts on the internal trade file. A number of premiers have kept internal trade as an area of responsibility for themselves. I have had extremely encouraging conversations with Premier Kenny, Premier Houston, Premier Ford, a number of premiers who really want us to finally drop the last remaining number of barriers. It would add immediately to the GDP of the country. It would also secure some of the supply chains.

It does seem rather bizarre that we could renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement with the Trump administration in the United States, and we haven't collectively as a federal government and provincial governments found a way to make our own domestic market truly free.

A final point is that the Government of Canada does not come to that conversation with clean hands, in the sense that we as a national government still have a few remaining barriers that the finance minister and I are working on eliminating. If we want to speak to some provinces that are perhaps less enthusiastic than the ones I mentioned, the Government of Canada has to be able to show what we have done within our jurisdiction. Financial services and food and agri-food industries are the obvious ones that keep getting raised.

I'm enthusiastic about the progress we can make in the next few months.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

I'm flipping back to infrastructure, because that's certainly the bulk of your responsibility, or an important part of it from our vantage point in the discussion today.

If you look at the mandate letter, there are 24 different commitments for you to deliver on. In addition to the interprovincial responsibilities, which you've talked a little about with regard to internal trade, there are four things. They have to do with leaders' debates in elections, foreign interference in elections, participation in elections, as we've just seen—under ongoing events with COVID—and security of parliamentarians and ministers. Those are important things that in themselves could take up all of your time.

How are we going to balance that with the importance of infrastructure? You've been left with a department that, from our vantage point, I think needs reorganizing. You talked about 33 projects on the go, but in a country as vast as Canada, that seems paltry. There's a lot to do, and these others things seem to be perhaps taking up too much of your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have 20 seconds, Minister.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, I appreciate our colleague's concern.

I think all of these various issues can be managed in an effective way. I have a lot of confidence in the senior officials at the infrastructure department whom I've been able to work with over the last three or four months.

I also recognize, for example, that the Prime Minister left me with what had been the democratic institutions portfolio at the Privy Council. To your example, issues of disinformation are obviously of huge concern, not only with what we're seeing happening in Europe but also events here in the last number of weeks.

I can be busy on a number of fronts. The intergovernmental affairs portfolio, not only in the COVID context but in the regular federal-provincial conversations as well, requires a certain amount of time, but I'm quite confident that I'll find a way to do all of it.