Transport Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Mr. McKee, do you agree as well?

[Chris McKee]

That's correct. We're seeing safety standards decline on our region's highways.

I echo the comment of my colleague that our own drivers are fearful for their lives a lot of days when they go on the road. Our preliminary data from our roadside enforcement blitzes and from looking at immigration programs and potential fraud shows that a majority of these companies are not domiciled in the Atlantic provinces. They are usually domiciled in Ontario, as my colleague stated. Again, where it impacts carriers in our region is that they're coming in and doing business in our region. It's still a problem for us, even though they are not necessarily baseplated in our provinces.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Mr. Bylsma, do you have anything to add?

I assume that you are experiencing this issue even more acutely since you are in Ontario.

[Mark Bylsma]

It's going to be a joint effort among all jurisdictions and the fed. In my opinion, this started with tax evasion, and it's grown from there, from one thing to the next thing. Once this group of business leaders decided they knew how to evade taxes, they started figuring out ways to cheat training, to cheat labour laws and to cheat immigration. I'm a Dutchman, so let's talk about dikes. The more holes you fill in the dikes, the more they drill new ones. It's just getting worse and worse.

Ontario has a good start going. Ontario is doing things like the WSIB carrier audit, which has resulted in $6.8 million in assessments. The MTO, WSIB and ESDC have a joint enforcement at the Whitby scale in Ontario, and one of the findings was that 65% of the drivers pulled over were with Driver Inc. The WSIB sends targeted letters to new start-ups.

There's intelligence sharing among the WSIB, the Ministry of Transport of Ontario and the Minister of Finance, but the CRA doesn't want to jump in the same sandbox and share information. Then, of course, there's Operation Deterrence, which Ontario put into place at the beginning of this year. They had 48,000 commercial vehicle inspections, and they're on pace to completing well over 100,000 in 2025.

Is that everything that can possibly be done? It's a good start. As I said in my notes, we all have to get on this, get in the game together and work together to eliminate it before they come up with new schemes and scams.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, all three of you.

I will continue along these lines. I am not a constitutional expert, but to my knowledge, interprovincial transportation falls under federal jurisdiction. The Canada Revenue Agency, which collects taxes, is a federal institution. Employment and Social Development Canada monitors classification errors, such as cases where self-employed workers should instead have employee status. The federal government is responsible for this. The federal government is also responsible for temporary foreign workers and asylum seekers, study permits, safety certificates and electronic logging devices.

I imagine all three of you agree on that.

[A voice]

Yes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

That's a fact. It's certainly difficult to say otherwise. I just wanted to point that out, because I think the government tends to pass the buck to the provinces. That doesn't mean that the provinces can't do certain things, but the federal government can take action on several fronts.

I'd like to come back to the points I raised and the fact that you placed a lot of emphasis on the issue of tax evasion. Are there other areas where the federal government could take direct action?

[Véronique Gagnon]

Yes, as a matter of fact, we must take action directly within companies.

When I discussed the situation with some MPs from my region, it became clear that highway controllers would need to be tasked with resolving the current situation. In my opinion, it is up to the federal government to actually go into companies and ask the right questions in order to stop these people before they hit the road. That's the main thing.

I also mentioned that certain insurance policies and documents should be required when renewing licence plates. Obviously, this process would be more a matter for the provinces.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gagnon.

Mr. Groleau, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank my colleagues and guests for joining us today.

My Liberal colleague blames the Harper government of 2011 and criticizes the Quebec government for not taking responsibility. I would like to remind him that the Liberals have been in power for 10 years, so this is quite absurd. Lives are at stake, but he is bringing up ancient history that dates back 14 years. Let's be serious, please.

My question is for you, Ms. Gagnon. Road safety and support for our businesses are priorities for the Conservative Party. You own a company that has been in business for 70 years. Can you tell us about the “Driver Inc.” phenomenon and the financial repercussions related to safety that you're seeing in your company in Saint-Pamphile?

[Véronique Gagnon]

The financial impact is huge, that's for sure. We know that the economy is in bad shape and that we have serious problems, so companies in the industry have no choice but to turn to the cheapest trucking companies, because they too have less money. So they use these cheap transport services that cost less, and we end up without work. When loading, these people arrive at our factories without adequate safety equipment, for example, with improper boots or safety helmets.

There is a cost to upholding all this safety. We bear that cost, but they don't respect it. As a result, our trucks are parked while these people parade right under our noses. They come and take our work. As a result, we have drivers who are questioning their desire to drive trucks because we can no longer fill our truckers' work weeks. Not to mention that vehicles are becoming more and more expensive, and it's difficult to sit idle while these people do our hauling with trucks that are obviously cheaper than the ones we put on the road.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Ms. Gagnon, earlier you said that a “Driver Inc.” driver, who was alone, was unable to open his hood when going through customs.

[Véronique Gagnon]

Yes, he couldn't open his hood. What's really unfortunate for my employees is that they have no choice but to help these people, because trucking has always been a profession where solidarity is the norm. Drivers are far from home and left to fend for themselves, so they have no choice but to help each other. We have to share the road with these people who need help; otherwise we won't be able to move forward either. We can't just sit back and predict the worst.

In this particular case, if our driver hadn't opened the hood, the customs officer would have waited for the other driver to open it.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Do you think it's normal for a driver not to be able to open the hood of his truck?

[Véronique Gagnon]

It is absolutely unacceptable, because opening the hood is a mandatory step during the daily morning inspection before setting off.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Is it mandatory every morning?

[Véronique Gagnon]

Yes, you have to be able to open the hood.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

In your experience, how many years has the problem been getting worse?

[Véronique Gagnon]

This problem hasn't been affecting the trucking industry for very many years. I would say that we have seen a shift over the past three or four years.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Is the Liberal government supporting you? Is it helping you through this crisis? Is it listening to your needs?

[Véronique Gagnon]

No, we have absolutely no help or support.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

You're left to figure it out for yourself.

[Véronique Gagnon]

We're left to fend for ourselves. We're left to our own devices in all this. As I said, this comes at a cost. Earlier, I was talking about insurance. We need to be aware that people who have accidents on the road need to be insured, because we'll soon end up with truck graveyards along the highway, since tow trucks won't want to tow them anymore.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

What message is the Liberal government sending to companies that cheat and to companies like yours that operate properly and follow the rules? Is it asking you to cheat too? What message is it sending you?

[Véronique Gagnon]

We definitely feel that the requirements are stricter for us than for them.

However, we will not start cheating. We would rather leave the profession than start acting like them. That's plain and simple