Transport Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

We, too, talk about saving lives, every day. I assure you, Mr. Groleau.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Groleau.

Next, we have Ms. Nguyen for six minutes, please.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much to the ministers for joining us this morning. It's great to see our colleagues here for this really important discussion. We've been digging into this issue for the last few weeks, and we are really interested in hearing your perspectives.

Minister Hajdu, throughout the study, we've heard from witnesses the recommendation for better information sharing between the provinces. We know that earlier this year an information-sharing agreement between CRA and ESDC was signed.

Can you tell us a little bit about how this is helping to close the gaps in enforcement and road safety for the federally regulated sector?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

By sharing information federally and working in partnership with weigh stations across the country, we can actually crack down faster on suspected bad actors. About 80% of employers who we suspected were misclassifying agreed to properly treat drivers as employees and voluntarily comply with the code.

However, there are still actors out there who continue to use this practice in fraudulent ways. That's why this relationship with information sharing between the labour department and CRA—but also the work we're doing in partnership with the provinces and territories—is so critically important.

We also spend quite a bit of time, when we're partnering with the provinces, informing individual drivers of their rights. It's an important component of the work to let drivers know their rights. It helps them to understand any kind of improper practices that may be happening, up to and including misclassification.

I believe today's announcement about how we're going to strengthen that information sharing will lead to even better outcomes in terms of being able to track, find and address these misclassification incidents.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

We heard from some witnesses that some drivers enjoy the flexibility and the freedom of being independent drivers. Many truck drivers, operating under the Driver Inc. model, are effectively gig workers. They don't have access to the basic protections and are vulnerable to exploitation.

Can you talk about how the federal government is ensuring that labour standards are evolving to reflect the realities of gig-based employment, particularly in sectors like trucking?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

The reality is that when people are being misused or abused in this way—and some could call this abuse—oftentimes they are unaware of their rights and they're unaware of the fact that this is happening to them.

There may be a number of different reasons for that, but the end result is the same. We have workers who are not receiving the same protections, not being advised of the same rights, and, in some cases, not being paid wages that they thought they would be paid through complicated schemes of compensation. Ultimately, this ends up in a very fragile situation for the worker, but also for other truck driving companies that are very diligent in keeping records, diligent in submitting important taxation information, following all of the regulations that are important in this industry, as my colleague has just spoken about. That's why this misclassification issue really deeply affects us all, ultimately starting with the abuse of the worker but ending with an abuse of an industry that is, as my colleague just said, critical to all of our communities.

I think the misclassification issue and the increasing work that we're doing to not only root out bad actors but prevent any kind of repeat behaviour.... It's a great number, 80%, who say that they won't do it anymore or that they didn't know they were doing it in some cases. That's a good number but it still means that we have 20% of the actors out there who are continuing to use this practice to abuse workers to enrich themselves, but also to avoid their obligations.

Ultimately, I think today's announcement, through better data sharing with CRA, will allow us to even dig deeper into those practices.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Thank you, Minister Hajdu.

Minister MacKinnon, Spadina—Harbourfront, the riding I represent, is Canada's most densely populated riding where pedestrians, cyclists and commercial vehicles share tight urban corridors every day.

How is Transport Canada working with municipalities and provinces to ensure that our national safety standards and infrastructure planning reflect the realities of urban contexts, so that goods movement can remain efficient and keep communities safe?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

That's a great question.

The fact is that Transport Canada works closely with provinces, with territories, and with municipalities to ensure that our national transportation policies and safety standards reflect the realities of these urban environments, just like yours.

I know most Canadians transit through your riding at some point in their lives. Safety in those dense, urban environments...bicycles, public transit, including the tram, and obviously cars and trucks, must move more fluidly through our urban environments. We're working to keep those environments safe with a national road safety strategy.

Using data, we try to reduce collisions and protect vulnerable road users, and I think we're making good progress on that.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Minister MacKinnon, we see the very important role that newcomers and immigrants play in sustaining the transportation and trucking industry. Many of these individuals are entering the sector as drivers, operators and small business owners, and they're often doing this under challenging conditions.

Can you speak to how their contributions are helping to grow the industry and build a more resilient transportation system to serve all Canadians and the economy?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I think it's quite obvious, colleague, that immigrants have played a major role in building this country and they obviously play a major role in the transportation sector.

I am a little concerned about the stereotyping that goes on. When I see, floating around social media, quite obvious cues and stereotypes about the people who populate the transportation sector, and particularly the trucking industry, that concerns me.

Most people are honest, qualified, competent, conscientious operators and employees, and efforts to paint this in some kind of stereotypical way are wrong-headed and dangerous.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister MacKinnon.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank the two ministers for being here today.

We can only rejoice that the government is beginning to take the issue of low-wage drivers seriously.

Ms. Hajdu, you held a press conference this morning to announce improved data sharing. Changes will also be made to T4A slips, a measure that will be requested by Minister Champagne.

All of this is happening at a surprising time. Your government has been in power for 10 years, and associations have been saying for years that there are problems in the industry.

On October 6, the Bloc Québécois held a press conference with industry stakeholders to present 10 demands. We have been hammering you on this issue for months and we are not letting up. Suddenly, you wake up and present measures.

Can you tell us whether today’s announcements are strictly due to the work that has been done and the pressure you have received? Otherwise, none of this would have happened.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you very much for the question. I'm sure that's how some would like to characterize it.

As I said in my speech, we started this work in April 2023, when we invested $26.3 million to fight misclassification in the federally regulated road transportation sector. As I said at that point, a national employee misclassification team was created. This was made up of labour standards and—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I’m sorry to interrupt you, but you’ve already said that. I understand what you’re saying.

I would like to address another issue. I know that you already started work in 2023. In that case, we could also talk about the 2022 economic statement.

On May 25, 2023, a press release was published. It stated the following:

...from here on in, the term Driver Inc. will never be used by the government. It is a deeply problematic term that unfairly maligns incorporated drivers.

Further on, it says:

Enforcement, however, will be educational in nature and... will not be “targeted”....

If I understand correctly, your government did not have the political will to act. Is that correct?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

What that release, which I have not seen, would perhaps be stating is that we don't want to stigmatize honest drivers in this sector. There are a ton of small businesses we rely on every day that are a single person and their truck. We need to keep those folks. We don't want those folks to feel like they're part of the target we're looking at. What we're looking at are people who are conducting illegal activity.

As I said, since April 2023—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I understand why you say that and I agree with you. We must not—

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Let me finish the sentence. Then I'll certainly let you go.

As I said, since April 2023, there have been over 650 inspections and 129 cases of misclassification. That's a result of working in partnership with provinces and territories. A lot of this work is done on the road in the weigh stations, with provinces and territories looking at records in—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

I understand that inspections have been carried out, that money has been invested and that we cannot complain about that. However, on the ground, we have not seen any change.

You are talking about 2023, but we are now in 2025. You talk about a few hundred inspections, when there are tens of thousands of trucking companies and fraud is said to be widespread throughout the industry.

Ultimately, the measures and resources that have been put in place so far are a drop in the ocean. That is my understanding.

But there is worse. According to data from your department, ESDC, 17 companies have been sanctioned.

Minister, do you think it is sufficient that 17 companies have been sanctioned and fined?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Allow me to answer that question, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Ms. Hajdu has outlined a long series of measures taken by our government, and this continues. This morning, an important initiative was announced. In April, we ensured that data sharing with the CRA could take place.

There is often talk of deregulating and dismantling the transportation system. I am sure you are not advocating that inspectors, road controllers and police officers harass truckers at every turn. We do spot checks, we have targets.

Data sharing will improve the success rate. However, you will agree that—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I understand.

What I am saying is that the government’s approach is the problem. We can see that the educational approach is not working. At some point, we have to crack down and take this seriously. That is what we are seeing.

This scourge has spread throughout the industry. You don’t have the resources and you’re not dealing with enough companies. At some point, you’ll have to take this seriously.

Of those who receive fines, 75% do not pay them. Furthermore, 100% of the fines paid are in the trucking industry.

You are not being taken seriously, that is the reality.

What are you going to do to be taken seriously?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

As we just told you, the government has been working on this problem for a very long time. I myself met with the Canadian Trucking Alliance. We've been working with the community, the industry and individual drivers for a very long time.

When it comes to fines, there's more work to be done, obviously. We will look at fines, administrative penalties and so on. That will help us strengthen the measures, and we will ensure that people comply with the law and standards.

There's no doubt—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

They don't pay the fines. That's the problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Today, we're laying the groundwork to clean this up.

Mr. Harper got it wrong in 2011. I think you would agree that we're rectifying that.