Transport Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next we have Mr. Lawrence.

You have the floor for five minutes, sir.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for being here, Ministers. My questions will be primarily to Minister Hajdu.

First of all, I understand that former minister Freeland was quite popular amongst colleagues. We have invited her and she has yet to show up. Maybe you could mention the fact that we would love to see her at the transportation committee.

Next up, in all seriousness, I'm glad to see that there is some acknowledgement of the problem that has been created over the last 10 years, and that there has finally been an acknowledgement that over the last 10 years the Liberal government has mismanaged the immigration system and the TFW system, and has mismanaged the CRA to the extent that both the misclassification and the TFW program have led to numerous fatalities on our highways. I'm glad to see that there is some acknowledgement of that.

What my concern is that over 10 years, we have seen this problem get worse. In fact, the Insurance Bureau came here and told us that there have been 80% increases. People in my riding have died because of your government's failure to manage the TFW program and the classification of drivers.

I'm glad to see there is an acknowledgement, but I want to dig down and see if we can get some results here. What is the date that the Driver Inc. problem will cease to be an issue in Canada? Give me that date.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

As I said in my speech, this began with a deregulation that allowed for this practice to flourish. That actually happened under the Harper Conservatives in 2011. Over the years, the process began to multiply. We've actually, as of today, announced that we are reversing a moratorium on T4As.

This is something that the Trucking Alliance is pleased with. Obviously, there are a lot of efforts to streamline doing business in this country, but sometimes we have to take a step back and realize that some regulations really matter, and this one evidently did.

I would also say that the licensing and the training of truck drivers is firmly in the lens of provincial jurisdiction. That's why this partnership with provinces and territories is so important: because we can't actually get to the infractions from a driving—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Here's the reality, Minister—

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

—capacity licensing way without the provinces and territories.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Here's the reality. According to the Insurance Bureau, we have seen an 80% increase in accidents in Ontario and 88% in Alberta. We have seen over 80% in the Atlantic region. This is a national problem. We would love to have some national leadership.

I'm going to ask you again: On what date will the Driver Inc. issue cease to exist in Canada?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Well, I think we're actually getting somewhere. We have not only sent a strong signal through the industry but also cracked down on individual companies—small, medium and large—that have used this practice—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Minister, we're trying to schedule a meeting to have the victims here. Unfortunately, your party is filibustering that. They are unwilling to listen to the victims.

For the victims, it's cold comfort for them to hear that we're making some progress—

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Do you mean the drivers who have been misused? Is that the victims you mean?

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Sure, absolutely, as well as those who have died on our highways because of your government's inability to properly classify drivers and to handle the TFW program in a sensible manner. They would find it very cold comfort to hear that we might be making progress someday. On what date will the Driver Inc. program cease to be an issue?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Well, we hope that it will cease to be an issue immediately. That's the work that we're doing to invest in the tools that we need to catch these bad actors. Today's announcement goes a long way to sending a message throughout the industry that we are taking even further measures by sharing information—by sharing information back and forth with ESDC and the CRA—and by working with provinces and territories in a deep collaboration.

I would say that we all share this deep grief that you're talking about. We have all known people who have lost their lives. I live in northern Ontario. Highway 11/17 goes through my riding and is in many places only two lanes. We have invested $70 million towards doubling the lanes in my riding, and I expect that we will work in partnership with the provinces and territories to continue that work to make our roads safe.

It's an issue of infrastructure, it's an issue of investment and it's an issue of cracking down on bad drivers. We need the provinces for that, by the way, because if someone is licensed to drive in this country and they don't actually have the skills to drive, they're putting my son's life in danger, who is also, by the way, a licensed AZ driver who is on the roads hauling equipment back and forth from job sites.

You know, when you talk about victims, I really want you to know that we all share the grief, and we all share the responsibility to push our provinces and territories to do better on behalf of all of us, in partnership with the work we're doing today.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

We also—

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to say that I find it actually really distressing that we're going to weaponize grief in this room.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

I want 10 seconds here. She went over. That's not fair, Peter. I let her go, so you have to let me go for 15 seconds here.

I share your grief, but we also have a duty and responsibility to these victims—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

With all respect to you all, I'll make sure you get the additional time. I want to make sure I don't disrespect Mr. Greaves. He has five minutes that I have to respect as well.

Mr. Lawrence, I will give you additional time if you want to go next time.

Mr. Greaves, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, ministers. Thank you for joining us today.

I'd like to elaborate on this theme of road safety that we were just touching on. As we heard in your remarks this morning, and as we've also heard from previous witnesses before this committee, this challenging model of Driver Inc. began in 2011 under a previous Conservative government. We've heard concerns this morning about road safety and funding from Transport Canada for road safety, which we also know was slashed under that government in 2015.

With that in mind, Minister MacKinnon, can you elaborate on what Transport Canada is doing to ensure safety on our roads and on the government's ongoing commitment to ensuring safety for both drivers and passengers on Canada's highways?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

That's a great question.

Our responsibility for road safety, as my colleague Ms. Hajdu just said, is a shared one, but let me reiterate that we do rely on provincial road safety measures and policies and we rely on largely provincial infrastructure investments in safety.

Mr. Lauzon, who is participating in the meeting by video conference, is aware of Highway 50. More money must be invested in road mobility in Outaouais. The safety of our roads is at stake. That's a perfect example.

Mr. Greaves, most Canadians understand that when you get a driver's licence, you're getting it from a provincial entity, whether that be in British Columbia, Quebec or elsewhere. We rely on provincial law enforcement to monitor highway safety and compliance with the rules of the road. We rely on the infrastructure of weigh stations and other road inspections that are undertaken at the provincial level.

The federal government largely has a coordinating and policy role in elevating best practices with regard to technologies and new methods, making sure we look around the world at the best practices possible and that we, to the extent possible in a federation, nationalize those things and make sure Prince Edward Island can benefit from good things that are done in New Brunswick and Quebec can benefit from good things that are done in Nova Scotia.

The federal government has a solemn responsibility around this. I do find it a little mystifying, as I'm sure you do, when we come here and get asked about something that is obviously and squarely under the aegis of a provincial solicitor general or a provincial certification authority. If you come here and then you, as my colleague just said, weaponize people's grief in an attempt to attribute blame at the political level or the federal level, I think that is not a helpful contribution to this debate.

You can rest assured that all of us—my colleague Ms. Hajdu and I and every one of us—have approached this problem with a real collaborative spirit and a spirit of getting done whatever federal contribution can be made to solving this issue.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you for that clarification, Minister.

Staying in the vein of federal-provincial regulation of this matter, Minister Hajdu, can you speak to how it is that ESDC distinguishes between federal and provincial jurisdiction around the Driver Inc. model and how the government coordinates and communicates with its provincial counterparts on this issue?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Yes, I can.

As my colleague has just said, there are things that are really not in our lane and that we don't have the jurisdiction to oversee. For example, the training and licensing of professional drivers and class G drivers is squarely among the rights and responsibilities of the provinces.

Anecdotally, these collisions that happen on our roads are often not solely the responsibility of the truck driver; there are sometimes general drivers who are involved in these incidents. All of that is tragic. As I mentioned earlier, I live in northern Ontario, in Thunder Bay, and these kinds of incidents happen all the time.

We work very closely, mainly on the administrative side, on how people's books are kept, the kinds of information about how the drivers are classified—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

—and what kind of financial information is available for us to really understand the misclassification issue.

The rest of that work on licensing is—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Greaves.

I'm sorry. We have 13 minutes left of questioning and 13 minutes left of our time with you, so I have to make sure that I'm respecting everyone.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Today, it seems that the government is waking up after 10 years of deep sleep. For the past 10 years, it's been badgered about the Driver Inc. matter. Suddenly, after 10 years of doing nothing, the government seems to have been divinely inspired to take action.

Mr. MacKinnon, only one of the 10 requests we had was implemented. That's a far cry from a passing mark, a one out of 10.

Can you tell me what made this divine inspiration fall down from heaven?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

You're really using a lot of religious metaphors this morning, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

First of all, as I just said, you must have been surprised to see the government's press release when you read La Presse this morning.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Absolutely, and even more so because two weeks ago, you were still saying that this was a provincial matter.