Transport Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Melanie Vanstone]

Trucking safety is an area of shared jurisdiction. We would work to discuss with the provinces and territories any changes to the model to determine if there are any recommendations to bring forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

Next, we'll go to Mr. Greaves for six minutes.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to our witnesses. Thank you for being with us today.

What we have heard from numerous witnesses on this subject is that Driver Inc. at its root is a labour and fraud issue. It refers to the employment status of these individual drivers, and the misrepresentation that some of them engage in, primarily, for the purposes of tax evasion.

I'm wondering if you could speak to where your departments are in pursuing perhaps additional measures to complement the existing labour protections and regulations that govern the trucking sector that have been introduced under the Canada Labour Code.

[Sandra Hassan, Deputy Minister of Labour and Associate Deputy Minister of Employment and Social Development, Department of Employment and Social Development]

The issue of Driver Inc., as raised by Mr. Barsalou-Duval, is not a recent one. It has been going on for quite some time. Back in 2021, the first measure that was brought into force was changing the Canada Labour Code so that the misclassification of a worker as an independent contractor was deemed illegal if the intent was to remove the employer's rights and protections under the Canada Labour Code. As we are well aware, the issues continued, so in 2023, a $26-million source of funds was allocated to a dedicated team to work on misclassification in the trucking industry.

In the 2024 budget bill, further amendments were brought to the Canada Labour Code. There were three fundamental amendments.

First, misclassification was declared illegal, regardless of the intent. Whether it is to remove the employee's rights or not, it's simply illegal.

Second, all workers are deemed to be employees unless proven otherwise.

Third, it's now the employer or the one giving the work who has the burden of proving the qualification of the person as either an independent contractor or an employee. The burden used to be on the employees, and a lot of them either had difficulty or didn't have the knowledge to be able to prove their status. They didn't have all of the information on the various criteria. It can be somewhat complex. Now, it's on the employer. They have that responsibility of showing that a person is either an independent contractor or an employee.

Those are the legislative amendments that were made. As you heard the minister say this morning, we started the enforcement measures.

There was a reference to a 2023 press release. When we announced our first stance, we were directed to be more in the education world and raising awareness. That is clearly not sufficient. The information has been out there for at least two years and the bad behaviour we've seen continues. Consequently, there will be an increase in how quickly we impose penalties in the enforcement continuum.

Those are some of the measures that have been taken through the years to address those issues of misclassification.

Brenda, do you have anything to add?

[Brenda Baxter, Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development]

In addition to the monetary penalties we issue, we publish those employers that have been issued a monetary penalty, both to make it public and to add some reputational harm. It helps to encourage compliance with those employers going forward.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

To pick up on something you just said, Ms. Hassan, education around this matter may not be sufficient, but it seems to be an important part of ensuring that workers and employers are aware of the changes that have been made recently. Can you speak to any measures your department is taking to share the changes that have been made recently with drivers and trucking companies?

[Sandra Hassan]

Over the past two years since the dedicated team was set up, it has done awareness sessions and inspections. The team has been working with provincial counterparts at weigh stations. We're close to 1,000 interventions, with at least 400 awareness sessions being held across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I would like some clarification from you and the clerk regarding the motion we discussed last week. If I'm not mistaken, at the outset, when we adopted the motion to study this, it said at least six meetings. Since there seems to be a unanimous desire to have an additional meeting to hear from victims and some witnesses that everyone seems to want to hear from, I wonder if you think the conditions have been met to exercise the latitude you've been given to add meetings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

The clerk has just advised me that we need clarification from the committee. Yes, the motion mentions a minimum of six meetings, but the committee must clarify what that means.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Okay. Maybe I'll come back to that in a second.

I'd now like to ask the officials here a question.

Subsection 25(1) of the Motor Vehicle Transport Act states:

25(1) The Minister shall prepare an annual report and cause a copy of it to be laid before each House of Parliament on any of the first fifteen days on which that House is sitting after the Minister completes it.

Subsection 25(2), which covers the content of the report, states the following:

(2) The annual report of the Minister shall contain the following in respect of the year:

(a) the available statistical information respecting trends of highway accidents in Canada involving motor vehicles operated by extra-provincial bus undertakings and extra-provincial truck undertakings;

this information is provided separately … and

(b) a progress report on the implementation of rules and standards respecting the safe operation of extra-provincial bus undertakings and of extra-provincial truck undertakings.

The Motor Vehicle Transport Act is still in force, as far as I know. However, the department's website says that the last report dates back to 2020.

When can we expect to see the next report?

[Melanie Vanstone]

Yes, under the act we are obligated to report annually to Parliament on commercial vehicle safety. The latest report was actually tabled, I believe, in early 2025, but it is the data of 2020. The reason for the lag is that the data we collect for the annual report is provided by provinces and territories. It takes some time to collate. There are a lot of statistics in the report with respect to safety inspections and other data. We do look forward to bringing forward the next report, which will cover 2021. Hopefully, in the very near future we'll be tabling that report.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

You'll understand that I'm very frustrated to see that it takes us five years to get statistical data. There are problems that appear in society and that require us to act more quickly than five years. In any case, I strongly urge you, as officials, to put pressure on your ministers, your teams and your counterparts so that this is resolved more quickly, because it makes no sense to still have 2020 data in 2025. They're already outdated.

I'd like to ask you a question about the $26.3-million envelope that was announced in the 2022 economic statement and that the minister talked about earlier.

How much of that money has been spent to date?

[Sandra Hassan]

This $26-million envelope is spread over five years and is distributed almost equally among the fiscal years. As fiscal years 2023-24 and 2024-25 have passed, approximately $10 million is expected to remain for the last two fiscal years. For the current year, approximately $5 million will be spent.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Did that $26 million allow for the hiring of only 23 people?

[Sandra Hassan]

In total, the team has 23 inspectors and 13 people to assist them. That was the number of inspectors that had been planned for.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

According to documents submitted by the Canadian Trucking Alliance, the non-compliance rate in the industry is 40%, and 25% of non-compliant companies simply disappear as soon as they see Employment and Social Development Canada coming. Can you confirm this?

If those aren't the real numbers, could you send the committee the latest numbers?

[Sandra Hassan]

We can send you the reports from our surveys, which contain the exact figures. I can't tell you where the 40% figure comes from, but I can tell you that since our team has been in place, there have been 650 surveys. We will provide you with details on this data.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Hassan and Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Next we have Mr. Lawrence.

The floor is yours for five minutes, sir.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Hassan, most of my questions will be directed toward you.

To give you an idea of what I'd like to accomplish in my round, the minister said that there were quite a few people in your investigation who were just not aware of where the line was. They incorporated, when maybe they should have been an employee. I just want to talk through that step by step, so that if you're a truck driver or an owner of a truck driving business, you know where the lines are.

Let's start at the beginning.

If in fact you don't own the truck and you just walk in, get your licence and start driving a truck, you would be an employee. Is that correct?

[Brenda Baxter]

Determining whether you are an employee or a contractor is complex. It's on a case-by-case basis. We have criteria that we look at. We're looking at the entire business to start with. It would be a trucking company that transports goods for others.

In looking at the individual driver, it is what the total relationship is—the control, the ownership of tools, the chance of profit, the risk of loss, who hired the worker, who paid the worker or established the rate of wages—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

I appreciate it, Ms. Baxter. I don't want to be rude. I know of the Supreme Court case that comes from. I agree with that. I'm trying to boil it down.

If I'm a truck driver right now, say I own my own truck, but I'm completely scheduled by a trucking company. In your estimation, would that represent someone who could incorporate or not?

It's just in general. I'm not trying to get you on anything.... That's not the purpose of this. I'm trying to give those truck drivers and those trucking companies some bright-line rules.

[Brenda Baxter]

Again, it would be determined...the business that they're doing. If they own their truck, they can still be an employee. They can work directly with an employer and the employer controls their hours, provides their wages, determines who they're picking up and delivering for.

If you are an individual, own your truck and decide who you're going to work with, what goods you're moving and when you're going to work, that is more on the contractor side.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

That's very helpful.

[Brenda Baxter]

Again, it has to be looked at on a case-by-case basis.