Evidence of meeting #15 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Fortin  Deputy Commissioner, Canada Revenue Agency

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 15 of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, September 18, 2025, the committee is resuming its study on the changing landscape of truck drivers in Canada.

Today's meeting, of course, is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders.

I would like to take a few moments to make some comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members.

First, please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation, either the floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

Colleagues, I would now like to welcome our witnesses for today.

8:20 a.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON

Mr. Chair, I have a brief point of order. I will be brief here as I'm eager to hear the minister.

At the last meeting, you ended it by dabbing out, as it is colloquially known, or adjourning it without having the will of the committee. That is a breach of the privilege of the members here. We have seen you be an excellent chair in the past, but we were deeply troubled by that. We would ask that in the future you ensure that you have the will of the room before adjourning a meeting.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence. I appreciate those comments. I apologize to members.

We have appearing before us today, colleagues, the Honourable Wayne Long, Secretary of State for the Canada Revenue Agency and Financial Institutions.

Welcome to you, sir. It's good to have here.

From the Canada Revenue Agency, we have Jean-François Fortin, deputy commissioner; Marc Lemieux, assistant commissioner, compliance programs branch; Mohammad Rahman, director general, business compliance directorate, collections and verification branch.

Welcome to all of you. Thanks for joining us.

I would also like to have a special welcome to all the Canadians who are watching us early this morning, including my son Anderson, who is celebrating is 11th birthday.

Happy Birthday to you, Anderson.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Mr. Secretary, it's now a pleasure for me to turn the floor over to you. You have five minutes for your opening remarks, sir.

November 6th, 2025 / 8:20 a.m.

Saint John—Kennebecasis New Brunswick

Liberal

Wayne Long LiberalSecretary of State (Canada Revenue Agency and Financial Institutions)

Thank you, Chair.

Good morning to members of the committee and good morning to Canadians watching, and happy birthday to your son. I'm sure he is up watching you.

I want to start by thanking you for the work you do. I have obviously been blessed to be here—I'm in my eleventh year now—and I sat on HUMA for 10 years and know the important work committees do for our government and for our country. To everybody around the horseshoe, I want to thank you sincerely for the work you do.

I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you and to discuss the work Canada's new government and the Canada Revenue Agency have undertaken to uphold tax compliance in the trucking industry. Trucking is vital to connecting Canada's vast and expansive territory and bridging our united economies, but not at the expense of industry standards and tax obligations.

Too many trucking companies and the drivers they hire are in non-compliance with tax obligations. Some companies erroneously and deliberately misclassify their truck drivers as independent contractors instead of staff employees. These practices undercut competition in the sector, unevenly punish rule-abiding companies and deprive workers of the benefits and pensions they are owed.

That is why, to restore fairness to the sector and to ensure workers are receiving the benefits they deserve, the budget we announced earlier this week would provide $77 million over four years starting in 2026-27, with ongoing funding of $19.2 million annually, for the Canada Revenue Agency to lift the moratorium on the penalties for failure to report fees for service transactions in the trucking industry and to implement a focused program that addresses non-compliance issues related to personal service businesses and reporting fees for service.

Our budget also proposes amending the Income Tax Act and the Excise Tax Act to allow the Canada Revenue Agency to share taxpayer information and confidential information as it relates to the classification of workers with Employment and Social Development Canada. This would provide Employment and Social Development Canada with access to better information, which could in turn allow it to more effectively address the issue of driver misclassification in the trucking industry.

Strengthening compliance would address long-standing concerns raised over tax avoidance schemes and ensure proper contributions to the programs and services Canadians rely on. Compliance with reporting requirements would also help level the playing field for responsible businesses and protect workers' rights.

Trucking companies that follow the rules should not be put at a disadvantage to those who do not. With the budget measures we are proposing, we would level the playing the field, strengthening tax compliance to ensure that everyone pays their fair share in supporting the programs and services Canadians depend on and ensure access to benefits for workers in a key sector of our economy.

In closing, before my wonderful life in politics, I was in an industry that relied heavily on shipping its products from coast to coast to coast and north to south. I know first-hand how critical it is to support our truckers and strengthen our trucking industry. I know how important it is to our economy. I know how important it is to our trade to have a healthy trucking industry. I am very proud we are coming forth with these measures in budget 2025 to take action to make sure that fair players are rewarded and bad actors are caught.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary of State.

We'll begin our line of questioning today with Mr. Albas.

Mr. Albas, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, sir.

8:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Secretary of State Long and your officials, for your ongoing commitment to our great country.

Do you prefer being addressed as "Secretary" or "Minister"?

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Kennebecasis, NB

It's whatever you want. I get "Secretary", I get "Minister" and I get "Wayne".

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Okay, Secretary.

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Kennebecasis, NB

Yes.

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Secretary, you mentioned the information-sharing agreement that would be authorized by Parliament.

What happened to Bill C-59?

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Kennebecasis, NB

I think for us right now, it's important to look forward and do what's necessary going forward. I was sworn in as secretary on May 13. I don't believe in looking backwards. We can—

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

I'm glad you don't believe in looking backward, Secretary.

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Kennebecasis, NB

We can debate—

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Just getting to the point, Bill C-59 would have authorized the same thing. It was killed by the decision of this Prime Minister, Mark Carney, to go to a spring election. I just wanted to make sure that everyone here knows that your government said it had a fix and brought that forward in the previous Parliament and instead allowed it to lapse.

I don't take any of the things you said today in those information-sharing agreements, as important as they are.... I just want you to bear some responsibility. I do know that you're new here.

Secretary, I will move to the next part here.

When will this new system for T4As be implemented? Do you have a date?

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Kennebecasis, NB

I was sworn in in May 2025. We took immediate action. I recognized that the Driver Inc. issue was a problem. I heard from Canadians. I've heard from colleagues on both sides of the House.

Respectfully, through you, Mr. Chair, my hope is that we have put these measures into budget 2025. My hope is that your party will actually support our budget and pass our budget so we can move forward with these measures.

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

I'm glad that you're hopeful. I'm also hopeful for an answer.

When will there be actual changes at CRA that enforce the rules as they exist, which they have not been enforcing?

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Kennebecasis, NB

I think the first step is to actually pass the budget so we can move these measures forward. If you want to pin me down to an actual date, I can't give you a date within a month or two.

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Will it be one year or two years?

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Kennebecasis, NB

With respect, I think the question back to you is whether your party is prepared to pass the budget. With these measures we are committing $77.6 million in this budget over four years and $19.2 million—

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Four years is what you're saying?

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Kennebecasis, NB

—each year after to up enforcement and to make sure that moratorium is lifted.

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Secretary, I think you know clearly where my party is on it.

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Kennebecasis, NB

I think the party—