Evidence of meeting #16 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lauzon.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
What we said when we spoke with the witness was that safety is a shared responsibility. We have an important role to play in that as a government. We have to work with the provinces and territories and all the police forces. All parties involved have to work together for the good of the trucking industry. We can easily put an end to the Driver Inc. scheme and illegal practices to ensure the safety of everyone on our roads. We have to do so not only for truckers and victims, but also for our families, our friends and everyone who drives to work. That's sort of what this witness told us, and he isn't just anyone. When we welcome people with decades of experience, we should listen to them. We all have experience in our own fields, but when someone with a specific experience like that comes to talk to us, we have to take advantage of it.
We have heard other things. You know that training is important to me. I had the opportunity to meet Ken Adams, the president of the Truck Training School Association of Ontario. He's a former police officer who worked with Mr. Blair, a Liberal MP and former Toronto police chief. He's speaking out against forged documents. When a former police officer says that, it's important to take that into consideration and react. We don't want fake diplomas, fake certificates or fake licences in society. It's important for investigators to be able to find those forged documents.
We heard another witness say that changing just one letter in your first or last name was enough to reset the clock. Now, a former Toronto police officer has come forward to denounce forged documents. I thought I had heard it all, but Ken Adams told me some impressive things on the matter. That former traffic police officer owns a trucking school and represents an association of 40 independent regulated schools that has been around for over 30 years. Is it possible to find anyone better in the transportation field, other than a flight school owner who's also a former F‑18 pilot?
Mr. Adams testified about the declining quality of training and, above all, the consequences of poor training that can be seen on the ground in Canada. The problem isn't that complicated, actually. He said pretty much the same thing about training as the other witnesses did: The problem is the misclassification of drivers. It starts in the classroom, during exams. A transportation company that influences schools to speed up training isn't a good sign. It's important to clean up the licensing process, but it's also important to clean up the organizations that issue the licences. That accreditation, which contributes to the Driver Inc. phenomenon, can be extremely harmful to the trucking ecosystem. I think it's possible to solve the problem by raising awareness, improving coordination among the provinces and territories, and making recommendations that give Canada a role to play.
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
I was wondering what time we're going to break.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
We have to break from 6:50 until 7:20 to ensure we can transition from those interpreters who are doing it virtually to interpreters who are going to be joining us in person.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
I just want to put this on the record, too, from the great band Inmotion:
And whatever happens
Yes, I'll pay the price for you to come back
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much. I'm not exactly sure the interpreters picked that up. I'm sure they'll do their best, as they always do.
Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor for 11 minutes, after which we'll have to take a break.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to go back to the testimony of the former police officer who represents an association of 40 regulated independent schools that has been around for over 30 years. It's always difficult to hear about misclassification and corruption, especially when it's a matter of forged documents and bribed examiners. Imagine where that could lead us. Unqualified graduates get fake licences to drive heavy trucks. At the same time, it's a form of student exploitation. That's quite a mess to clean up. This has been dragging on for a very long time, and all of it directly contributes to the increase in the number of fatal accidents.
It's in our best interest for reputable schools not to close their doors, which could be very harmful to the ecosystem. It's also important to avoid losing qualified instructors, who want the system to work well and who must be protected. That's not to mention the underpaid newcomers who are deprived of their rights and benefits.
Still, some potential solutions can be drawn from this witness's devastating statements. First, there has to be more transparency when it comes to the connections between schools and motor carriers. That means it's important to monitor what goes on in the schools and ensure that it's being disclosed, so it can be properly regulated.
Two weeks ago, I met with representatives of a flight school in my riding. We had an excellent meeting. They're conscientious, they meet the required number of training hours, they have a code of ethics, and they ensure that every student follows the protocols in place. This training is essentially the federal government's responsibility, and it's also regulated for federal exams. On that note, having visited the school, I can assure you that corners aren't being cut. This training can cost up to $120,000 or $130,000 per student.
Flying a plane is an extremely important job, but driving a truck is just as important. The former Toronto police officer raised some issues. Of course, transparency and the disclosure of connections between schools and motor carriers is important, but unannounced provincial audits of program and equipment quality are just as important. It's also important to remember the sharing of vehicle information, which I mentioned earlier. If a vehicle is defective, no matter what province it's in, it's still defective.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC
The member is becoming repetitious. I don't think it's actually allowed that he continue to reference things he previously said. I'd like you to rule that if he is going to filibuster, it should be regarding original content.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Mr. Lauzon, I'd like to remind you and all other members not to repeat the same thing over and over again.
You have the floor again.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
What I'm saying is directly related to the comments by the former Toronto police officer who testified that day. He told us that better co-operation was needed and that a national credential could be created. We could include that in our recommendations. He also proposed creating a harmonized curriculum with a module on combatting human trafficking.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC
Again, he's not speaking to the motion, Mr. Chair. I have complete respect for people who can filibuster, but they actually have to filibuster on the motion with original material. Maybe the member is getting tired. In that case, maybe he should allow some of his other members to be heard.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much for that, Mr. Albas.
I believe that Mr. Lauzon is speaking to the motion, so I'll let him continue.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Mr. Chair, it's relevant to talk about creating a national credential. What's important to mention is that we have the opportunity to finish with this motion now. Earlier, we had the opportunity to accept a very reasonable amendment that enabled us to make recommendations and invite grieving families to appear before the committee, giving them the choice to do so in person or virtually, and in public or in camera, so that we treated them with dignity.
However, that amendment to the Bloc Québécois motion was refused today, which is what led me to talk about the former Toronto police officer who represents an association of training schools that has existed for 30 years. He recommends that we create a federal-provincial body that brings together all the actors involved. That can be part of our recommendations. We can think of Transport Canada, the Canada Revenue Agency, training schools—
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
We may have lost interpretation.
If that's the case, do we want to suspend, figure it out and see what's going on with interpretation? Do you want to confirm that?
I'll speak in French to see if the interpretation is working.
I'm told it's working.
You may continue, Mr. Lauzon.
Thank you very much, Ms. Cody.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Thank you.
Ken Adams recommended that we set up a federal-provincial body that brings together all the actors involved, including Transport Canada, the Canada Revenue Agency and various partners, to pool data on repeat offenders. Once again, this recommendation comes from a former police officer who is used to crackdowns. We could easily find ways, among ourselves, to crack down on offenders in that area. The more that get caught, and the more compliance is improved, the more trucking companies will want to stay on the right track and become reputable businesses again.
We have a rare opportunity to catch up, and we can't address the causes of the Driver Inc. phenomenon without finding good recommendations. We want to implement measures to ensure that we have safe and reliable roads and to solve the issues that have been raised to us in committee.
Trucker training falls under provincial jurisdiction, but I'm prepared to get involved, and I'm convinced that this suits the Bloc Québécois, since some of its recommendations also fall under provincial jurisdiction. Trucker training is a provincial responsibility, but public safety is a federal responsibility, and I believe in that very strongly. Working together, the provinces, the federal government and the trucking industry can harmonize standards, support schools and ensure that every trucker on our roads is well trained. That's my takeaway from Ken Adams' testimony. He's a man of integrity who worked for the Toronto Police Service and came here to sound the alarm. He deserves to be heard by this committee and have it ask its analysts to make the necessary recommendations to complete this study.
We also welcomed Mark Seymour, who is the chief executive officer of the Kriska Transportation Group. I like to hear from independent businesses that have integrity. He gave us an alarming statistic that over 50% of candidates want to work only as contractors. At first, it may seem more appealing to work as a contractor, since, even if the costs may be a little higher, it ultimately costs less. First, you don't have to pay all the fees, and you're independent. You can drive however many kilometres you want. The driver is responsible, not the company. If drivers cut corners when inspecting their vehicles, they're the ones responsible. Often, the truck doesn't even belong to them. This has an impact on the profitability of companies, and Mark Seymour tells us that candidates are the ones asking to work as contractors. That's concerning.
We have heard women and police officers talk about their experience, but Mr. Seymour has 40 years of experience in the sector. He runs a family-owned trucking business that was founded 47 years ago. It went from three trucks to 800 trucks, and it did so within the rules. He knows what he's talking about, then, and he told us outright that the Driver Inc. model weakens the system. The result is a hidden economy that shouldn't be there. It creates unfair competition for companies that are compliant.
All the witnesses we have heard from have said the same thing, including the representative of an independent company, passed down from one generation to the next, which he has continued to manage. The Driver Inc. model has direct impacts on his company. In three years, he has voluntarily reduced its activities by 25%, for reasons we all know. Recruitment is a problem. We were talking earlier about the labour shortage. It's less and less prevalent in many fields, but it persists among truck drivers. He told us that he's limited in terms of the workforce he can hire, which is causing difficulties on the recruitment side. There are also limitations on investments in equipment renewal. Yes, maintenance costs are higher. Truck prices have skyrocketed. I'm thinking in particular of the full purchase of a truck.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Mr. Lauzon, I have to stop you there, because it's 6:50 p.m.
I'm going to suspend.
After we resume it'll be your turn.
Liberal
