Transport Committee on March 23rd, 2026

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Finally, has the fact that he was able to drive almost immediately after this accident, and just by switching carriers in different provinces was able to get back on the road, weakened your thoughts of Canadian safety?

[Peter Verleysen]

It has. As I drive around, I find myself very cautious when I'm around different transport drivers and notice how they drive down the road. I'm sure most of the committee feels in that same position when they're out in public.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Thank you very much for your testimony today. I know this could not have been easy for you. I'm so sorry for your loss, and I'm hopeful that some change can come of your tragedy.

Thank you very much, Mr. Verleysen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you.

Next, we'll go to Monsieur Lauzon.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

I will ask my questions in French, if you don't mind, Mr. Ettinger and Mr. Verleysen.

Mr. Verleysen, I am truly sorry that you lost a member of your family.

We're all committed to improving the system. We heard your testimony, which covered several topics and recommendations. You spoke about increasing security measures, cameras, amending licensing laws and regulations and so on. We are ready; we're here to find solutions and to work with the provinces and territories. We know that licensing falls under the jurisdiction of the provinces and territories. We're therefore ready to make recommendations.

We've heard from several witnesses who told us about the licensing process. They also spoke to us about irregularities, particularly when it comes to information sharing. You mentioned that you lack information. We heard from the witnesses that there's a lack of information across the provinces and territories when it comes to sharing information about the non-complying truckers. Do you think the committee should look into this further?

[Peter Verleysen]

I believe the committee should look further into this, but you are the federal power. Please make the provinces accountable to you. We don't have this information. We never learned how Gail died.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

In your recommendations, you propose that the federal government establish a procedure whereby the provinces would pay a fee to the federal government.

I don't see how the system could be changed to act on your recommendations. Laws and regulations would need to be put in place to ensure that companies take responsibility and do not award individual contracts to truckers working under the Driver Inc. model. That would already be a step in the right direction. We have eliminated the T4A form, which is a good step forward.

Do you have any other recommendations for us to hold companies more accountable so that they become both more cautious and more diligent?

[Peter Verleysen]

I believe that, yes, you could impose some management on the provinces, but on top of it, there has to be accountability brought into the whole system for both the companies and the drivers. We've seen a lack of accountability from both parties.

Let me bring you back to the civil side. We are dealing with the insurance company. We are not dealing with the firm. No one is getting a break in their insurance because of these situations. We have to find a way to make these people accountable for their system, as every single system in lots of other capacities in other industries has fines and regulations associated with situations like this. There isn't the same standard here.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Verleysen. I join the entire team in offering our condolences following the loss of this family member.

Mr. Ettinger, since time is running out very quickly, I would ask you to be brief.

You have been clear, you've said repeatedly that Canada Post does not engage any contractors under the Driver Inc. model. We went out and met with companies on the ground, and they told us they weren't very familiar with the subcontractor hiring process. How can you be sure that Canada Post has no connection whatsoever with Driver Inc. truckers for its deliveries? How can you assure us of that?

[Doug Ettinger]

Thank you. That is a great question.

As CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we have the right processes in place and the right checks and balances. We procure two billion dollars' worth of goods and services across Canada.

The first thing I'll say is that we have a rigorous and comprehensive procurement process. It's robust. It's transparent. It's fair. With regard to transport services, we have over 300 contractors and about 800 contracts. We take safety seriously; we really do.

There is no engagement of Driver Inc. throughout Canada Post for a couple of key reasons.

First of all, we have a supplier code of conduct—call it stage one—that the potential contractors have to adhere to. That's rules, laws, regulations, employee policies, etc.

Second, we have our own agreements, the terms and conditions of which have been built and baked into these agreements over 20-plus years of working closely with Transport Canada. We are interacting with them all the time. Our agreements are very stringent around technical requirements, the fleet, the drivers, the training and the safety.

If those two things aren't met, we don't even get into other things. They are disqualified from the process.

My last point is that we have a very thorough auditing process. We audit all of the companies and all of the activities. Last year, we did almost 1,500 audits, and we took action on 650 of them. We had 17 drivers removed, and we replaced 12 lanes with different services.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Ettinger.

Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.

I will now turn over the floor to Mr. Barsalou‑Duval for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I like to thank the witnesses here with us today.

Mr. Verleysen, to you and your entire family, please accept my sincere condolences on the passing of your sister. I hope we will be able to make changes so that this kind of situation occurs as rarely as possible. We know that it can happen, but we wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Mr. Ettinger, the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities called you to appear twice to testify. After you refused twice, we had to send you a subpoena. If I were in your shoes and I saw people were insisting that I testify before the committee, I would ask myself a few questions. I would think that perhaps I'm being called to appear because it's important. If they're insisting, it's probably because there's a good reason for them to insist.

I must admit that I've been a member of Parliament for a decade now, and in my 10 years on the Hill, I've never seen a Crown corporation refuse to testify. Right now, we are pouring public funds into Canada Post and keeping you afloat with taxpayers money. I find it absolutely unacceptable that you refused to come here to explain yourself, to be held accountable, and that we had to force you to be here.

Don't you find it shameful that we had to force you to testify today?

[Doug Ettinger]

I lost the last part, but thank you for that.

Yes, this is a very important committee doing great work for safety. We fully support any enhanced regulations that this committee and the government are looking at. In fact, we applaud that. There is no place for the Driver Inc. model in Canada, period. We don't believe in it. We want to see it eliminated across Canada.

I apologize for not being at the earlier appearances. We had some conflicts, but we're happy to be here now to help. We provided letters and background information to help, and I think we've given the information on all of the suppliers we've used over the last 10 years.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I hear your apology, but it remains unacceptable that we had to compel you to appear today.

In the messages we received at committee, as well as in the testimony you have provided so far, you have mentioned that Canada Post does not engage with the Driver Inc. model and does not employ Driver Inc. contractors. In my view, awarding contracts to these truckers still amounts to a form of engagement. Furthermore, as a Crown corporation, you have a duty to set an example. People expect your conduct to be beyond reproach. Instead, we see you rewarding companies that defy our laws.

Aren't you accountable for that? Today, I get the impression that you're saying you're not guilty, and that you have nothing to do with any of this.

[Doug Ettinger]

We believe strongly in the need for safety. It's the number one priority in our company, not only for employees but also for contractors and carriers that work on our behalf.

Again, we're here to try to help. We do set an example in Canada that's a very important example with our stringent processes, our terms and conditions, and our very robust auditing of all of our carriers that we work with.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Mr. Ettinger, did you read La Presse on February 9? Have you read the reports stating that over 25 companies you work with allegedly use the Driver Inc. model and hire Driver Inc. truckers?

[Doug Ettinger]

Yes, I have read that information, of course. It concerns me. We have contacted all of the names of the companies, but I can assure you that we are not engaged in any activity around Driver Inc. in Canada, period.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I find that response rather inconsistent. You say you're not involved in this, but you're giving them contracts. I have court rulings here. Companies have been named. It's been proven that they misclassified workers, which means they used the Driver Inc. model.

Worse still, I have examples, if you're not convinced yet. I didn't hear you say that, but I almost get the impression that you're telling us that the news is fake news.

I can give you the names of companies. Autobahn, a well-known member of the Canada Truck Operators Association—which is the Driver Inc. lobby—receives contracts from Canada Post. BPR Trucking was fined $30,000 by Employment and Social Development Canada. That company is prohibited from bringing in temporary foreign workers. There's a reason for that. Sim-Tran, or Simard Transport, which had contracts with you, was hit with a $136,000 penalty by the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board, or WSIB, the Ontario equivalent to Quebec's Commission des normes, de l'équité, de la santé et de la sécurité du travail. A $136,000 penalty corresponds to $3.4 million in unreported wages. These are people who likely used the Driver Inc. model. Canada Cartage Diversified, which received numerous contracts from Canada Post, was subject to a $161,000 penalty by the WSIB, which is roughly equivalent to $4 million in unreported wages. Roadies Shunt Services was hit with a $193,000 penalty by the WSIB, representing $4.8 million in unreported wages. This company received a huge number of contracts from Canada Post, even in 2024 and 2025. Daytona Freight Systems owes $8.7 million in unreported wages.

You're telling me that all these companies have nothing to do with the Driver Inc. model, even though we filed access to information requests, obtained the information and found that all these companies had been subject to corrective measures by the WSIB. Millions of dollars in wages are not reported to the government by these companies. These are shady companies that you are indirectly funding with public money. Are you not guilty of that?

[Doug Ettinger]

Again, thank you for that information.

We have a very clear and robust system. Again, we do full auditing all year long, and not only of our own team, but we have contracted parties that audit these. I have no evidence and nothing that I can point to. If you have strong evidence, I'd be happy to take it back today, and we'll look into it immediately. I'll guarantee you that we'll terminate anybody who has made serious violations in this space, which is so important for Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Ettinger.

We'll make sure that Mr. Barsalou-Duval can get that information to you so that you can do that diligent work after the meeting.

[Doug Ettinger]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Mr. Groleau, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I too would like to offer my condolences to the families of the two Air Canada pilots. It was a very tragic accident.

Mr. Verleysen, please accept my sincere condolences as well.

Mr. Ettinger, thank you for being here, and Mr. Brisson as well. We've been waiting a long time for you. We've worked very hard to get you here.

I will pick up on up on my colleague's remarks. There's an excellent article in La Presse by Mylène Crête. She states that you've hired more than 20 companies that do business with Driver Inc. truckers. I was shocked to learn that a Crown corporation was cutting corners when it came to safety on our roads. Do you condone that, Mr. Ettinger?

[Doug Ettinger]

Thank you for that.

We are not cutting corners when it comes to road safety. Our financial situation is well known to Canadians, but safety is an area that is non-negotiable for us. In fact, if contractors get through our rigorous process...again, the supplier code of conduct, the terms and conditions that are stringent around their requirements. Then we get to pricing. We will pay more for pricing to get a quality carrier. We want a balanced approach. We actually make sure that our structure of our procurement is done that way.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I understand that, but if we had to send the bailiff to get you to come here, I imagine there are some things you don't want to say. When people have something to hide, they don't want to show up.

We're talking about more than 25 companies. We have evidence that you hired them. My colleague has evidence. What are you going to do in the future to make sure this doesn't happen again? It has to stop.