The House is on summer break, scheduled to return Sept. 15

Evidence of meeting #5 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ferries.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Chrystia Freeland  Minister of Transport and Internal Trade
Gregor Robertson  Minister of Housing and Infrastructure
Jimenez  President and Chief Executive Officer, British Columbia Ferry Services Inc.
Cory  Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

I had a very good conversation with the CEO of Seaspan. He's very enthusiastic about the meeting we're going to have. He mentioned to me that Canadian workers earn more than workers in other jurisdictions. They do, and that is a good thing. We want him to be providing good, high-paying jobs, and he does, and I told him that I absolutely understand and support that. We committed together to working hard to get Canadian ferries to use Canadian steel and build at Canadian shipyards, including Seaspan. I did congratulate him on an MOU that he signed with Algoma Steel a couple of weeks ago, to get Canadian steel into the icebreakers that he is building.

We need to get beyond talking points and talk about rewiring the supply chains in our country. We have to support our steel and aluminum sectors and softwood lumber, and that means convening conversations with Canadian manufacturers to ensure that our steel, aluminum and lumber sectors are producing the products that our manufacturers need.

Governments do have a role to play here, ensuring that we are placing the orders there. I want to go back to Mr. Lawrence, because I worry about those same workers. These conversations can be really important, because, if we get orders placed now, then that fills up the order books of our steel mills and aluminum smelters. It gives them the confidence to keep on operating.

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Well, Minister, again you have an opportunity. You could say, no, we don't want to have an industrial carbon tax that will put our steelworkers at a disadvantage. That is something that your government has said it wants to do.

Minister, do you support the review of the remission framework by the Prime Minister to target cheap foreign steel that comes from countries like the PRC?

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

I was very glad as finance minister to announce last June that for the first time, Canada would be putting tariffs of 25% on Chinese steel and 100% on Chinese EVs. We announced that last June. We had a consultation, and in October of last year, those tariffs went into place for the first time. This is an issue that I've worked on for a long time, and I have a lot of conviction there—

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Eric McNeely is the president of the BC Ferry and Marine Workers' Union. He wants to know why your government will say that it will put tariffs of 25% on cheap steel from countries like China, yet it seems like you're going to let this one go by tariff-free. Think of all the aluminum and all the steel for all the components that go into making these ships, Minister. What do you have to say to Eric McNeely and the people he represents?

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

The voice of labour in these issues is absolutely essential. That's why, at the shipbuilding meeting we are convening, we will be inviting unions to participate. It is absolutely important right now, given the tariffs the Canadian steel sector is facing, for us to find uses for Canadian steel in Canada. I am utterly committed to doing that.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

Minister, you know, those steel and aluminum tariffs were threatened by Donald Trump months ago, yet it's only now that this committee started to put the heat on that you started this made in Canada approach with groups that are underneath your watch. You won't say that we want to cancel the industrial carbon tax. You won't say that you're going to cut red tape and be competitive. You're totally silent when it comes to the loan of $1 billion by the Canada Infrastructure Bank to offshore, effectively, Canadian jobs in steel, aluminum and shipbuilding.

Everything you're offering here, Minister, is talk. You have failed the test. It's August 1. We have an executive order that's come in. You come to this committee and you talk, talk, talk. You're not willing to do the basics—

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you, Mr. Albas.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

No, let me just finish here.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

You've run over your time by 20 seconds.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC

The basics were standing up for Canadian workers. This was your opportunity. You and your government have failed.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Mr. Albas.

Next we'll go to Mr. Greaves, who is joining us online.

Mr. Greaves, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.

Will Greaves Liberal Victoria, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and good morning to colleagues.

Good morning, Minister. Thank you so much for joining us today.

I'd like to maybe take a step back and ask you some questions about the sector more broadly rather than taking the same line of questioning my colleague has been pursuing. We know that the government has been making historic investments in Canada's marine sector, including in shipbuilding, with a variety of projects for the navy, the Canadian Coast Guard and others. We also know that no Canadian companies submitted a bid for this BC Ferries contract, largely due to the volume of work they already have under contract in the three major shipyards across Canada.

Minister Freeland, could you perhaps speak to how the federal government is going to support increasing the capacity for Canadian shipbuilding in the future and how this might have a positive impact on future procurement decisions for BC Ferries and other vessel providers across the country?

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Thanks for being here. I know that you represent constituents for whom this is a very important and live issue, so I'm really glad that you're with us.

It is a great question. The national shipbuilding strategy, which various governments have been working at for a long time, is really bearing fruit, and this is a really good thing. Canada has built up shipbuilding capacity. This is in our strategic and national economic interest.

What we need to do now is work very hard to connect our shipbuilders with the sectors that are under threat—steel, aluminum, softwood lumber—and we need to connect them with the procurement decisions of Canadian entities: the federal government, the provincial government and private sector entities. We need to have that strategic plan with everyone, including labour, at the table. That's why I'm really excited about this meeting that we're organizing, with shipbuilders, all of the ferry operators—private and public—the federal government, the provinces, labour, steel and aluminum. We're going to sit down and look at, “What are the order books? What kinds of ferries do we need? Who needs ferries? Who is able to build them, and are we able to use Canadian steel and aluminum in that construction?” Mr. McCarthy, the CEO of Seaspan, is very enthusiastic about that conversation. I am too.

This is the moment when we really, in a significant way, need to rewire the Canadian economy. I have been a believer in reciprocal procurement for a long time. That's why I first published an intention to develop that policy in the 2021 budget and followed through with a policy that was published in 2023. As transport minister, I am totally committed to acting on it.

Will Greaves Liberal Victoria, BC

Thank you for that response, Minister.

As you just noted, BC Ferries plays a vital role for many communities in British Columbia, including my own riding of Victoria. I dare say I'm the only member of this committee who regularly travels on BC Ferries—I've ridden the ferry twice this week—so this is something that is near and dear to our hearts and livelihoods here on Vancouver Island and all over southern B.C.

My constituents regularly face struggles with aging ferries, service delays and the costs associated with those—costs for both BC Ferries itself but also individual consumers, who lose time with their families if they get stuck on ferries or delayed by sailings because there aren't enough vessels to meet the demand that we have here on the coast.

I'm certainly concerned, as you are, that BC Ferries chose not to build these new vessels in Canada. However, I'm also deeply aware that we desperately need new ferries in order to meet the needs of British Columbians, and I'm concerned about the prospect of delaying the replacement of the aging fleet that, really, we rely on here.

I note that my Conservative colleagues really are playing politics here with what is critical infrastructure and service in British Columbia, and they seem intent on stopping the delivery of new ferries to B.C. in order to fulfill their aim of reducing government support for major transportation projects in Canada. In that vein, could you please share with this committee how, in your capacity as Minister of Transport and Internal Trade, you and your team will support British Columbians and BC Ferries, who are concerned about the aging ferry fleet and are deeply focused on the need for reinvestment in ferry service in order to meet the needs in our daily lives?

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

It is really good to have, as part of the conversation, someone who rides on these ferries regularly.

As you know, the federal government, as part of a 1977 agreement, provides operating support to help defray the cost of running those ferries, and it's good that the federal government does that.

I share your concern about playing politics, and I'm going to just suggest that maybe all of us call on the better angels of our nature. This is a moment when we have to play as team Canada, and while, obviously, we disagree about a lot of things, I think there is actually lot of agreement around this table. All of us are saying that we need to support steel, aluminum and lumber; that these are sectors that are facing not just an unfair threat but an unfair attack; and that we have to reorganize procurement at the federal and provincial levels to ensure that we are supporting Canadian manufacturing jobs and the steel, aluminum and lumber sectors. While I agree that politics are political, I hope that the basic point is one that we can agree on and work on together to achieve, because our workers, economy and national sovereignty depend on it.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Minister.

I'm trying to keep us on time here. We have room for one more question from Mr. Lawrence and one more question that we will provide the opportunity for Mr. Kelloway to ask.

Mr. Lawrence, the floor is yours for one question, please.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON

Thank you.

In your letter earlier this year, you said, “I am dismayed that BC Ferries would select a Chinese state-owned shipyard to build new ferries in the current geopolitical context, and I ask that you verify and confirm with utmost certainty that no federal funding will be diverted to support the acquisition of these...ferries.”

It has since come to light that $1 billion of federal funds will go to support the purchase and construction of these ferries. Will you call today for the cancellation of the loan to BC Ferries?

1 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

I've been very clear that I share the dismay, which I think is shared by all members of this committee, about that procurement. In my capacity as Transport Minister, I have done everything under my authorities to ensure, first of all, that operating funding is used for operations only, and second—and I think even more importantly—that, in procurement decisions taken while I am transport minister, we are supporting Canadian manufacturers, steel, aluminum and softwood lumber, and working together to get a real strategy to do that in shipbuilding and in rail.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Minister.

Our final question for you today will come from Mr. Kelloway. Mr. Kelloway, the floor is yours, sir.

1 p.m.

Liberal

Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, there's been a lot of talk today about the provincial procurement process. I really believe that all of us on this committee, including elected leaders in B.C., agree that every government must re-evaluate its procurement policies to ensure that we're supporting Canadian workers, businesses and the economy.

God knows the world has changed over the last few months. It changes on a daily basis, especially when you look at the tariffs that are coming from the Americans.

You talked about this in your opening statement, but, if you can, I want you to elaborate on it in the time that we have. For years you've been working to advance reciprocal procurement here in Canada, so that we're not benefiting our adversaries but supporting Canadians. Could you speak about your work to advance reciprocal procurement and what that means for Canada?

1 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Thank you for joining us, Mr. Kelloway. Since this is the transport committee, I want to thank you for your work on getting those tolls lowered. That comes into effect today, and I know it's going to be really meaningful for the people you represent. Thank you for your hard work on that.

Now is a moment when we have to really, in a profound way, rewire the Canadian economy. It has to start with procurement. As I mentioned, I have been an advocate and have really been thinking about how we need to change our procurement policy. We need to go to a reciprocal procurement policy, a buy Canadian policy in which we support Canadian workers and our sectors that are being hard hit and, where we cannot buy Canadian, seek to buy from countries with whom we have a reciprocal procurement agreement. We need to do that urgently. It is a different approach from the one that previous Canadian governments have taken. That's why I wrote 71 letters, in June, to the agencies controlled by Transport Canada, and said that we have to change how we do things.

I do want to point out that specific attention has, quite rightly, been paid to steel, aluminum and lumber. These industries are going to have to be brought into a conversation with manufacturers and government procurers at all levels, so that they can be producing the inputs that the manufacturers need. That's a conversation we have to have urgently. As we do that, they can fill up their order books going forward. That is going to provide the security for the workers and families whom Mr. Lawrence, quite rightly, invoked.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much.

Thank you to Madame Hébert, Mr. Thangaraj and, of course, you, honourable minister, for your testimony here today. We wish you a great rest of your day.

Colleagues, I'm going to suspend for two minutes in order to welcome our next witness, Minister Robertson, and, of course, his team.

The meeting is suspended.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

I call this meeting to order.

Colleagues, allow me to welcome the Honourable Gregor Robertson, Minister of Housing and Infrastructure. He will be appearing before us for the next hour.

Welcome to you, Minister.

Accompanying the minister is Paul Halucha, deputy minister of housing, infrastructure and communities.

Welcome to you, sir.

Thank you for taking the time to appear before us today.

Minister, you have five minutes for your opening remarks. We're very tight for time, so I'll turn the floor over to you. Please proceed.

1:10 p.m.

Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby B.C.

Liberal

Gregor Robertson LiberalMinister of Housing and Infrastructure

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank you and the committee for your time today. As Minister of Housing and Infrastructure, I'm here to speak primarily about the Canada Infrastructure Bank, the CIB, and its role in supporting and investing in Canada's infrastructure.

Canada is faced with a generational infrastructure challenge. Whether in terms of housing, clean energy, public transit or trade corridors, we need to build on a scale not seen for decades.

To meet this historic challenge, we need to do more to leverage public and private investment and spending. We have to use the national books to mobilize private capital into public interest infrastructure that connects our communities, that protects our planet and that supports long-term economic growth. We need to do it in a way that respects the jurisdictions, that protects taxpayers, and that delivers results, obviously.

The Canada Infrastructure Bank exists as a key tool in the federal tool box to invest in the public interest. It will continue to play a critical role in Canada's infrastructure future. The CIB's mandate is clear. It's to help close the infrastructure gap and mobilize private investment for the public interest, accelerating the kinds of large-scale, complex projects that otherwise wouldn't get built on time or at all. To this end, the CIB has now committed over $16 billion across more than 102 projects, including zero-emission transit, broadband for rural indigenous communities, and clean power transmission lines, enabling infrastructure for new housing. This has attracted over $19 billion in private and institutional capital, meaning that more infrastructure is able to get built. Most of these investments are already under construction. A number are completed and delivering in value for Canadians by driving Canada's GDP. They're creating local jobs and delivering clean Canadian electricity to residents and businesses.

Because the bank operates at arm's length from government, its board is responsible for investment and operational decisions. That independence is important, as it gives the partners the confidence to bring forward projects and ensures that infrastructure investments are grounded in sound analysis and commercial rigour without political interference. This model has delivered results, but it also means that decisions on specific transactions, like the BC Ferries credit agreement that we're discussing here today, are not made by me or by the Government of Canada.

Let me speak briefly regarding BC Ferries. As you know, the CIB entered into a credit agreement with BC Ferries to support the modernization of its fleet and the electrification of terminal infrastructure. To be clear, this is support that is desperately needed. As a British Columbian, I will strongly reinforce that piece. The aging ferries threaten the commutes and the accessibility to local communities. Residents and visitors should be able to count on safe, reliable, affordable passage across the region on the Salish Sea. It's a significant investment in clean transportation, aligned with both federal and provincial goals. The choice of shipbuilder, however, was not made by the federal government or by the CIB. That decision was made by BC Ferries, who conducted their own global procurement process. To be clear, the Government of Canada had no role or say in the procurement decision.

I understand from briefings with officials that the process did not yield bids from Canadian shipyards. While the final procurement decision was made by BC Ferries, it has understandably drawn criticism. The lack of Canadian bidders in the process has also raised concerns. As someone from B.C., as a minister, I am disappointed in this. I want to see more Canadian-built vessels, more Canadian jobs and more opportunities for domestic industry to participate in major infrastructure projects.

Looking forward, our new government is at work to ensure that building ships like these happens in Canada, using Canadian workers and Canadian materials. That's why we're looking closely at how we better align our industrial policy, our procurement tools and our investment incentives to support and scale up Canadian capacity in important sectors like shipbuilding. At the same time, we should not lose sight of what the CIB stands to do for our national interest or of what this project means for British Columbia residents and communities—lower emissions, stronger public infrastructure, and long-term benefits for people in B.C., including hundred of millions of dollars in Canadian-based maintenance upgrades and service support over the life of these vessels.

In closing, I want to thank the committee for its time and to recognize the work of taking on this important issue and asking the tough questions. As a government, as a country, we are at a historic moment that demands both bold thinking and decisive action, and Canadians are counting on us to get homes built—first and foremost, on my side—and to deliver on the infrastructure that our economy and communities depend on, whether it's ferries on the west coast or trade corridors that connect the country. That's the real work in front of us, and we won't get there by doing things the old way.

We need new partnerships, new financing and a sense of urgency, and the CIB is helping make that happen. It has a proven track record of success in mobilizing billions of dollars of investment, supporting projects that otherwise wouldn't get built. We're going to keep pushing to get more projects off the ground, more jobs created and, importantly, more results delivered for Canadians.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you very much for your opening remarks. We'll begin our line of questioning today, Minister, with Dr. Lewis, who is joining us online.

For that, I turn the floor over to you, Dr. Lewis. You have six minutes, please.