Transport Committee on Sept. 25th, 2025

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Would you say that it's a good use of their hard-earned taxpayer money to subsidize shipbuilding jobs in another country, particularly in the People's Republic of China?

[Brynn Bourke]

I want to be clear: We're furious with this decision. I feel that we're in this position where people are saying, “Well, now the deal is done and it's inevitable, and we have to move forward.”

As George indicated, they were working with Davie for many years to present an alternative. We were working with Seaspan for many years to present an alternative. We did not have to be in this position.

To be before this committee and arguing that somehow there's a sense that we didn't have the capacity to build these ferries in British Columbia is very frustrating to me. I took the Spirit of Vancouver Island over on Monday to get to Victoria. These vessels are world class and still operating. Meanwhile, vessels that we're building in other countries have end-of-life that's half the age of the fleet we built here.

It is very frustrating. They should have been built in British Columbia.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Do you think Canadian shipyards and Canadian workers have what it takes to build these ships?

[Brynn Bourke]

A hundred per cent.... Again, I will repeat: We built the Queen-class vessels over 40 years ago. Almost all of them have surpassed their end-of-life service date and are still plying the waters of British Columbia, while other vessels we purchased 20 years later are experiencing failures. We are the best in the world at what we do, and our workers deserve to be compensated fairly.

I will also say, with regard to the shipyards we're competing against, that it isn't that Canadian workers are making too much money. We are are competing against shipyards in Europe and China, where the states are sponsoring these shipyards. They're investing in these shipyards. They are subsidizing these shipyards. There's nothing extraordinarily expensive about Canadian labour. It's just that those governments believe in investing in those industries.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

You mentioned investing in the industries, which I find interesting. We have a federal government now that has talked a lot about building Canada strong and investing in the economy. Do you think subsidizing, to the tune of one billion dollars, thousands of shipbuilding jobs in China builds Canada strong?

[Brynn Bourke]

As I've said, I'm incredibly frustrated that we're in this position where a contract has been given to a shipyard in China to build four vessels that we could have substantially built in Canada.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

The federal government, the provincial government and BC Ferries itself have framed this as there being a spontaneous need to increase the capacity of BC Ferries. Has this decision come out of nowhere?

We have a provincial government that's been there for eight years, a federal government that's been here for over 10 years and BC Ferries obviously should have been able to map their capacity growth. Should they have known years in advance that we were going to need new ferries and have been able to create an industrial strategy around that?

[Brynn Bourke]

They knew 40 years ago when we launched the Queen-class vessels when their end-of-service life was expected to be.

I would welcome George to also weigh in, because his members are right there beside my members doing this work and are highly involved in this.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

On the same question, Mr. MacPherson, did you want to weigh in on that?

I know that you've been calling for years for an industrial strategy to build ferries right here in British Columbia. Does it surprise you that we haven't gotten our act together here in 2025, when you've been calling for this for I believe over a decade?

[George MacPherson]

It's been well over a decade, probably two decades. We worked extremely hard with the east coast federation as well to try to put a shipbuilding strategy forward with the federal government. We lobbied hard. We fought hard. We looked like we were getting some success, and then all of a sudden things changed.

We look at BC Ferries and, as I said before, if there was a project coming down the stream, they wanted to sit with the industry and discuss with the industry where they were going with that project and how they were going to put it together. Then everybody would just put their gloves and on and go to work and get it done. There are a lot of jobs out there that could be had. People need to put some value into the industry. The industry is, as Brynn says, well over 100 years old. We have a very long history of building ships. They're world class. They last forever. Look at the first three that were built in Germany back around 2003 or 2004. Those vessels will never see the life the ferries built in British Columbia will have. They just won't last. It's becoming clear now the problems it creates. We have vessels breaking down and we don't have parts to fix them because everything was bought in Europe. Then there's the time frame of how we go and source out those parts to get that vessel back in service. It creates a huge problem.

I don't have the answer.... Well, I do have the answer. The answer is that we have to put this industry back together the way it was for the last 100 years.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. MacPherson.

Thank you, Mr. Gunn.

Mr. Lauzon is next.

Mr. Lauzon, you have six minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First and foremost, I want to thank all the witnesses for joining us, particularly given how early it is for some of them.

My first question is for Ms. Bourke or the other representatives from the workers' unions.

In the eyes of the unions, when there is a call for tenders, how important is it to respect provincial jurisdiction, meaning reserving the right to legislate to the provinces?

[Brynn Bourke]

I'll go first.

Obviously, one of the key inflection points in this decision would have been for the Province of British Columbia to instruct BC Ferries, “You will require Canadian content. You will only consider bids where there's a substantive amount of shipbuilding that's happening in British Columbia.” That is something we pushed for and wanted.

I will also say that British Columbia does not get the same investment in ferries the east coast does. We need multiple governments to be involved in course correcting what's happening with BC Ferries.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Do you want to add something on this, Mr. MacPherson?

[George MacPherson]

If we look at the ferries, this decision was one of the worst decisions my members have seen in their lifetime in the industry, to go to China and spend $1 billion to build four vessels. My members cannot believe it's actually happened. There's a lot of—

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

I understand, Mr. MacPherson, but the question is this: Is it important to respect the jurisdiction of the province with labour?

[George MacPherson]

I think the province has some work to do. We've lobbied the provincial government very many times. Do we respect what they're doing? Sure, but they still need to look at what the industry is and how we're going to look after it.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

For the record, an independent company put out a call for tenders to obtain very specific services. Representatives of that company appeared before us to talk about timelines, manufacturing costs, but also the urgency of building these boats immediately.

It's easy to say that it could have all been planned 40 or 50 years ago, but we've shown today that investment costs are exponential, if only to bring ferries to standard.

The Canada Infrastructure Bank's role is to fund projects and not select them. It's important for Canada to maintain its independence from the provinces and from the funding allocated by the Canada Infrastructure Bank. As you know, there are all sorts of businesses and factories in every riding in Canada. They buy different equipment and machines that are only sold in Germany or Italy, since they aren't manufactured in Canada. That's part of the business decision-making process.

We're all saying the same thing: Everyone would like us to buy vessels that are made in Canada. We would all like Canadian employees to be the ones manufacturing them, in Canadian shipyards. We all want the steel and aluminum being used to come from Canada.

Earlier, we spoke with representatives of the Steelworkers Union. If we remember the reason we produce steel here but then it's processed in the United States and comes back here with a higher price and an added tax, it's because we broke the supply chain.

We had partners outside Canada to establish a Canadian economy. Can we do better? Yes, we can do much better.

Given this new supply chain and without losing sight of the Canada Infrastructure Bank's role in funding projects and ensuring their independence, without impinging on the responsibilities of the provinces, could you each provide a recommendation that the federal government could follow, without forgetting the elements I mentioned earlier?

Let's start with Ms. Skidmore.

[Sussanne Skidmore]

I'll reiterate what I said earlier, which was that both the federal government and the provincial government in this scenario have a responsibility to the working people in the province, in the country, and there should be Canadian content built into any investment that's put into the infrastructure that is BC Ferries, in this case.

There should be a Canadian tie-in. There should be benefits to Canadian workers. This benefits our economy for decades and generations to come, and everyone has a responsibility in that. To suggest that this is an autonomous decision that the provinces should make all on their own, I don't agree with that. I would assert that you folks and the federal government also have a responsibility to Canadians and Canadian workers to make sure that the investments that are made here in Canada benefit Canadians.

You've heard from others this morning. I was on bright and early listening to both the steelworkers and the BC Ferry and Marine Workers' Union folks. There is a responsibility here and the government has a role to play.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Can we hear from you, Ms. Bourke?

[Brynn Bourke]

I suppose most succinctly in terms of the role or responsibility of the Canada Infrastructure Bank, I think it should be obligated to consider the jobs that are being created and the projects that it's investing in. I think it made a wrong decision. It is a tragedy that over a billion dollars is going to a foreign country and not one job is being created here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lauzon.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the three witnesses for joining us today. The testimony they have provided up to now is quite interesting. That said, I feel like I'm seeing the same problems or challenges that Quebec experienced in some areas.

The steel sector is paying a heavy price right now, there is no denying it. It was hit with 50% tariffs by the United States, our main export market for steel. Major projects, funded by the federal government and requiring lots of steel, are happening outside the country. That's quite frustrating.

It's not like it's the first time that has happened. We can think of the rail cars for the Réseau exprès métropolitain in Montreal, which were funded by the Canada Infrastructure Bank. The project was done overseas, even though Canada had the capacity to build the cars here. The new Via Rail Canada trains are another example. We had the production capacity to manufacture them here, but the project was ultimately done overseas. Finally, we can also think of a recent decision involving Boeing aircraft. National Defence, which had to procure new aircraft, picked Boeing rather than Bombardier by circumventing the request for proposal process.

This Liberal government is repeating the same model. Every time public funds are invested in major projects requiring steel, and for which we have the construction expertise, it unfortunately goes elsewhere, at the expense of our workers and our industry. The same government made those decisions and also the decision to fund the construction of these boats, through the Canada Infrastructure Bank.

In light of the government's record to date, are you feeling confident about the future?

Ms. Bourke, do you want to start?

[Brynn Bourke]

It's certainly frustrating. We're pushing back against this narrative that we did not have the capacity to do this. We've spoken already about the fact that we have built every ferry in this province for nearly 100 years, until 2000. Then choices were made, both by successive provincial governments and by federal governments, to walk away from the civilian shipbuilding industry. Nevertheless, as I mentioned in my opening comments, we built the HMCS Protecteur, which is the longest naval vessel in Canada's history. We're building very substantive projects in British Columbia. The idea that we couldn't build these ferries tomorrow is highly offensive to my members, who are doing much more sophisticated things in the shipyards.

Are we here because we had a problem with timing? Yes. Are we here because we have a BC Ferries corporation that prioritizes low bids and that basically told Canadian shipyards that was the criteria? They knew not that they didn't have a good chance and that they would not win if they bid on these projects. I'm here not only to bring the frustration and anger of my members and talk about this but also to say to the federal government, the provincial government and BC Ferries that they haven't changed a single thing since this happened to make this not happen again. We will be here over and over again. If we want to save our civilian shipbuilding industry, it starts today by evaluating this decision and trying to right the course.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I appreciate your comments on the importance of building confidence by taking actions to promote change.

I mentioned the government's record, but I could tell you about our current study. Ms. Freeland, when she was transport minister, wrote a letter in which she stated that not a single federal dollar would go toward this project. Ultimately, she was fully aware that the Canada Infrastructure Bank had a plan to fund vessels built in China.

The Liberal government's transport minister acted in full knowledge of the fact and with full knowledge of the situation. Ultimately her letter was worthless and was just for show. In short, she fooled everyone. Do you believe this constituted a breach of trust on her part?

Ms. Skidmore, do you want to respond?