Transport Committee on Sept. 25th, 2025

[Sussanne Skidmore]

I get that there are some highly political conversations going on around this, but my responsibility is to the working people here in British Columbia. We had the ability to build the ships, as you've heard over and over again. We have the workforce to build the ships, and we're ready to do it. Regardless of who's in government, the commitment going forward as of now needs to be made. Changes need to be put in place to ensure that British Columbian workers are building things that are used here in British Columbia.

Right now we're talking about ferries, but of course there are other things to come. We need an industrial plan that ensures that our shipbuilding industry not only continues its successes of the last hundred years but becomes even better. There's an opportunity here for the federal government and provincial governments all across the country to make sure that we spend Canadian dollars building Canadian products that will benefit us for generations. It's not only that but the outpouring of the other things that come from that, including skilled trades.

I heard earlier this morning talk about investing in women in trades and investing in skilled trades and training. Who better to do that than union folks and public post-secondary education?

There's a real opportunity here. It's been missed. It's unfortunate, as you've heard from the building trades. We are very frustrated about this. We'll continue to try to make sure this gets done right going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

We'll go to Mr. Albas to begin our second round of questioning.

Mr. Albas, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for coming today.

We heard from our earlier witnesses that this is a generational investment. Davie shipyards called this RFP by BC Ferries the largest non-governmental procurement in Canada's history. We've also heard from Eric McNeely that in China, the PRC has a hybrid model where they subsidize both their civilian and their military, because it keeps that work coming. I and Conservatives recognize that it is the workers who are going to be bearing the costs of this, both in terms of their tax dollars and as a missed opportunity.

I want to start first with Ms. Bourke.

Ms. Bourke, you've pointed out the outrageous decision by the Canada Infrastructure Bank to not even blink when BC Ferries came to them and asked them for a below-market loan for over a billion dollars, and there was no Canadian content requirement. Do you believe the Canada Infrastructure Bank has lost its way?

[Brynn Bourke]

First, I want to talk about that piece around civilian and national defence in shipbuilding. I will say that there's a saying in our industry that our shipbuilding sector is a three-legged stool. It is national defence, private industry with cruise and fishing vessels, and civilian shipbuilding. Those are the three pieces of work that keep us moving and allow for skills training and growth and that make for a vibrant industry. When you have one of those legs taken away, in this case, civilian shipbuilding, it really causes a paralysis in the industry.

On the Canada Infrastructure Bank, I've made it clear that I think their decision is not in alignment with Canadian values. I think they should be required to place a lens on the decisions they make in terms of whether they create jobs, create opportunities and benefit Canadian communities.

I will say that it is incredibly frustrating as a British Columbian, who needs significant investment in our ferry fleet, to be in a position where we may be questioning whether there's federal support. I do reject this black and white in that either the loan is cancelled or it's not cancelled. We need federal support for ferry construction in British Columbia. I hope I'm articulating that well. We need these dollars to flow to the west coast.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

You absolutely are. I sense the palpable anger coming from workers who believe that they have the know-how, if government, like other governments, saw the value in doing it here.

Both David Eby and Mark Carney wrapped themselves in the maple leaf and said they wanted to build Canada strong, to buy Canadian and move faster than we ever have before. One of the things that I know is frustrating to your members is that Seaspan funded economic studies and presented them to BC Ferries in 2023. I believe it's called the Shirocca report. It was done by a consulting group.

BC Ferries has failed to produce those documents—which this particular committee has—which I believe gave an argument for doing it here in Canada. It was an alternative vision. Do you believe that BC Ferries should come clean and submit that evidence so we can have a full conversation about the economic benefits of seeing these ships done in Canada?

[Brynn Bourke]

As an organization of many unions that were lobbying to have this work come to British Columbia, we were aware of the Shirocca study. A lot of the economic benefit analysis in terms of job creation and how taxes would flow back into the communities—all of that—came from that report, and we've read it. I was surprised that it wasn't disclosed.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] to the committee so that we can really get to the heart of this matter and present a full recommendation to the Government of Canada?

[Brynn Bourke]

I'm sorry; the very first part of your question was cut off. Do you mind repeating it?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Okay.

Do you believe that BC Ferries has an obligation to this committee and to the public to submit those documents?

[Brynn Bourke]

I believe it's in the public's interest for that report to be made public.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Thank you very much.

Now, the Pattullo Bridge and—closer to Mr. Greaves—the Johnson Street Bridge both had considerable delays because of cheap Chinese steel.

Ms. Skidmore or Ms. Bourke, are there concerns of the same kind of thing happening here?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Provide a 10-second response, please.

[Brynn Bourke]

Yes, we have concerns. My members are literally building the new Pattullo Bridge and have experienced significant challenges with the quality of the steel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Bourke.

Thank you very much, Mr. Albas.

Next, we'll go to Mr. Greaves.

Mr. Greaves, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for joining us this morning.

As the member of Parliament for Victoria, I would like to extend my appreciation to you, Ms. Skidmore and Ms. Bourke, for your opening comments, which emphasized the important role that BC Ferries plays in providing critical infrastructure to B.C. coastal communities. You also emphasized that the interest all of us on this committee really should be in prioritizing how we can ensure BC Ferries has the capacity to meet the needs of British Columbians while doing everything possible to support Canadian jobs and Canadian industry through its procurement processes.

I also note and appreciate the statement that was just made about how critical federal government support is to sustaining Canada's shipbuilding industry. I'd like to ask you to elaborate on that part with respect to the national shipbuilding strategy. Now in its 15th year, this strategy has been integral to channelling federal government support towards shipbuilding across this country.

Could we please hear you speak to how the national shipbuilding strategy has supported job creation and the shipbuilding sector in British Columbia? Perhaps we could start with Mr. MacPherson, but I'd love to hear from all three witnesses.

[George MacPherson]

The shipbuilding strategy has really brought part of the industry back to a very good level. We have a lot of apprentices who have gone through. They have a career in front of them and they're going to do extremely well.

We just need to expand on it. It's been good for Vancouver. It's been good for Halifax. I think it's really done extremely well for the industry across the country, so we just need to expand on that. We need to make sure that when the federal government is going to invest in the industry, it's looking at Canadian jobs. It needs to see it's putting people to work.

A lot of young people out there are struggling today to find a career path, and this is a great career path. People are able to buy their homes, pay their mortgages and buy their cars. It's a great job, but for the federal government to finance projects like BC Ferries' project to China with absolutely no Canadian content whatsoever is just wrong. My members were devastated when the announcement came out that they were going to build four ferries in China, but they were extremely devastated when they found out—because nobody knew—that the federal government was actually loaning the money to BC Ferries to build in China.

There is a lot of criticism going toward both levels of government for how this project went. This project was in the can for seven years. That's when it started, and at no time did BC Ferries come to the industry and ask what the industry could do. The only thing they said to the industry all the way through was that this project would be done on price and price alone, and that there was no value in Canadian workers. That's basically what they said to us, so we're extremely frustrated with the whole process.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Perhaps Ms. Bourke....

[Brynn Bourke]

I'll weigh in and say two things.

First, the national shipbuilding strategy has created many jobs for my members, and they're very proud of the work they're doing on those projects.

I will also say that when I use that example of the three-legged stool.... Our shipbuilding industry is more than just the North Vancouver Seaspan shipyards. It's the Victoria shipyards. It's the Esquimalt dry docks. It's Point Hope. It's Allied Shipbuilders. What we need is an ecosystem where we have that civilian shipbuilding also happening so that different components are being built. We're spreading that work around so that you have work for apprentices as well journeypersons.

Right now, we're completely off balance. We have a big push on federal national defence and then nothing. Then we have another big push and then nothing. We really need to bring the whole ecosystem back into alignment.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Ms. Skidmore, I'll pass the floor over to you if you any comment on that question as well.

[Sussanne Skidmore]

I would just echo what both speakers before me have said. This is a priority here. We heard immediately from workers when we heard that the contract for these ships was going offshore, over to China.

Workers here, in the province of British Columbia and across the country, are ready to do the work. They're hungry for the work. As we are looking to the future and the commitment—the federal government's commitment, the provincial government's commitment and BC Ferries' commitment—to our working people and our economy here in British Columbia, we see that this investment needs to be made, and there need to be ties to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Greaves.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Earlier, I asked the witnesses in the previous panel if they agreed that all major infrastructure projects funded with public funds should be carried out here. I think it makes perfect sense, and both previous witnesses agreed. I'd like to know whether our three witnesses also agree.

Ms. Bourke, what are your thoughts?

[Brynn Bourke]

Yes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Mr. MacPherson, do you agree?

[George MacPherson]

Yes, I totally agree. I think that if we're using taxpayers' money to fund projects, surely to God we're going to put people to work.