Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 11th, 2006

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

We've talked about a veterans bill of rights, and I see in your notes that you refer to the Americans, who have a GI Bill of Rights. We're talking about the veterans, but there's one step they have to take before they become veterans: they have to serve.

Do our soldiers right now have a bill of rights? Do our forces in the field or in Canada have one?

[Brian Ferguson]

They certainly have all of the commitments we've made to them. I would have to say they don't have one in the sense you're thinking of, which is why the initiative is under way.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

But we're talking about a veterans bill of rights here?

[Brian Ferguson]

Well, I think the analogy you're talking about is more related to the Veterans Charter, in the sense that there were a lot of components put into the GI Bill of Rights that Canada then introduced at the end of the Second World War, which became known in Canadian parlance as the Veterans Charter. It really became the foundation for the development of Canada's social service infrastructure, because with one million returning men and women after the Second World War, Canada didn't have in place at that time the social programs it needed to avoid the difficulties that occurred at the end of the First World War when soldiers came home, many of whom were destitute after the war. So the Veterans Charter came into being at that time. It became the rough equivalent of the GI Bill of Rights.

Over the years, it became apparent that the charter did not provide our younger veterans with what they needed, because it had evolved to become a support to an aging population. So we call this one, colloquially, the new Veterans Charter, because it has replaced the former one. But it's not in the same ballpark, I think, of what we're talking about in terms of a bill of rights, from what I understand the statements to be, if I may say that.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

I wasn't confused before, but I might be now. No, I'm just kidding.

The reason I asked that question is that we've talked to veterans, because we're designing something for veterans. But do we talk to our armed forces now, because they will become veterans also? In the discussions we have or among the people we're talking to, are there any in the armed forces right now who can provide us with some help as we design the bill of the rights to serve them when they become veterans, when they leave the forces?

[Brian Ferguson]

I'd like to go further with the answer I gave earlier and really return to it, Mr. Valley. I'm aware there is a consultation process under way that's going well, but it's not within my area of responsibility—quite deliberately, to keep it outside of the service delivery arm of the department. I would ask that those questions be addressed more generally to the department, and also to Mr. Hillier in any future return of his to the committee, as he is responsible for that file.

So I really am not in a position today to give you an update on the process unde rway, other than in the general sense I've given.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

That's fair enough. It's just that I'm concerned that we're taking one step, with some explanation as to how we don't have one for the personnel serving right now, and we're not asking the people there. But I understand it's not your mandate here today.

Can you tell me, after the veterans bill of rights is in place, however long it takes, however we bring it forward, and whatever fanfare we have for it, how can we ensure veterans will know that this information is out there? You mentioned 216,000, did you say?

[Brian Ferguson]

We have roughly 210,000 to 220,000 clients out there.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Do you have some insight on how we actually deliver the package or the information to them? I know you mentioned the success of your “fine newspaper”, I think you called it. What plans do you have or how would you foresee our delivering this to a population, part of which is getting on in years?

[Brian Ferguson]

Well, I certainly see it as advantageous that we would have those mechanisms in place. I'm not in a position today to really answer that question--in the sense that it would require an understanding of the precise mechanisms that are going to come forward and how they would be introduced--other than to say that I'm certain it will be a great advantage to us to have those mechanisms in place.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

I guess to be successful, we'd have to have a strategy to make sure it's out there, because if we're going to maintain the satisfaction levels of your department, they need to know what's changed and what rights they're going to have.

[Brian Ferguson]

Absolutely.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

That was bang-on five minutes. I was impressed.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

I'm afraid of you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

You were 10 seconds early, and it's much appreciated.

We'll hear from Monsieur Gaudet of the Bloc for five minutes.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Considering your figures, if I were you, I would stop looking for graphs and tables since 84% of your clients are satisfied.

I have worked in the field of health care and, when we could achieve 70%, we were ecstatic. Yet, you've achieved 96% about the quality of care provided. It's close to perfection.

You'll never be able to improve on that or do you think that you would be able to and, if so, how would go about it?

[Brian Ferguson]

As I said earlier, we're not satisfied with the 84% even though it's 84%. We still want to work very hard to see if we can improve that through our service improvement program, which we launch after each one of our surveys. We look for ideas of how we can improve services in these areas throughout the department, from people who make suggestions and from other sources.

If we get a complaint, for example, we don't just respond to the complaint without looking at whether there might be another problem behind it that we could actually fix. Each time we get a complaint we try to have the attitude—and I think it's pervasive throughout the organization—that we don't take the complaint as a personal criticism so much as a system criticism, and we try to fix the system. And we really work hard at that.

In terms of the 96%, we're working continuously with the long-term care facilities to try to improve the services we offer there. Part of the surveying that's done there now is actually done under contract to the Royal Canadian Legion, for surveying of our smaller facilities. Those surveys aren't done by us. In those cases, they're done by outsiders.

We're always looking for ways to improve the service, and certainly anybody's suggestion as to how we could do that is well received. We try to analyze it and see if we can do a better job.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

The other day, I went to visit the Perley-Rideau health-care center for veterans and someone told me that everything was perfect except for the food. I had given my business card and she sent me an e-mail.

When we went to Sainte-Anne, we didn't talk to anybody because we were always being followed by someone. We were being followed by the Board of Directors and in fact every director was there.

My question is simple. I would like to see the survey measuring the ten service standards. Would it be possible to see that survey? Could you send it to the committee?

[Brian Ferguson]

The service standards are in a number of forms, but certainly the general service standards are here and in your service booklet. We can send those to you, should you wish to have them for your records.

Secondly, I should mention for the long-term care facilities that we actually have 10 outcome standards that are measured. I can identify those for you. The 10 outcome areas in long-term care that are reviewed are the following: safety and security; food quality; access to clinical services; medication regime; access to spiritual guidance; socialization; personal care; sanitation; access to specialized services; and activation and ambulation, where they're moving around and staying active. You mentioned food quality. Food quality is very important for individuals who spend their lives in long-care facilities; it becomes a very important part of their day;

Those 10 standards are reviewed on a continuing basis in our long-term care facilities, and questionnaires are sent out to get the answers to them. I can provide a formal list of those standards to the committee, as was requested.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Yes.

I'd like to receive not only the standards but also the survey done about the standards.

Looking at your booklet, I have the feeling that an 80 year-old person must find it very difficult to read. Actually, I can be pretty sure about it because I myself wouldn't read it and I'm younger. When you carry out a survey, you have to be sure that the respondents are able to answer the questions.

As far as reasons are concerned, we haven't heard any. You're asking why people are not satisfied but the level of satisfaction is 96%. What more do you want? Hundred percent? If a gouvernment could achieve a 96% level of satisfaction, it would do whatever it wanted. I can assure you it wouldn't be bothered by the other 4% nor by the 16% of the other case. I find that difficult to understand.

Thank you very much. You're telling me 96%.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

There you go. Okay.

[Brian Ferguson]

Perhaps I may respond quickly. We will provide survey questionnaires.

Mr. Gaudet has asked for the surveys.

I'll provide those, as requested.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Fair enough, okay.

Now I believe it's over to Mr. Shipley for five minutes.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to go to Mr. Ferguson and his comments.

When you were talking about the service, you said your clients can expect to be treated with courtesy, equity, fairness, respect, and all that, and that's what it should be. You go to the part of the decision on the pension application, and it was brought up by my colleague Mrs. Hinton. Twenty-four weeks—that always sounds good, but that's six months. Why does it takes so long?