Evidence of meeting #38 for Veterans Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was peacekeepers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
I think it's worth mentioning that Mr. Stoffer moved a motion a while ago to officially designate this room as the veterans affairs room. After the official designation—we don't have the art up yet—you'll be the first veterans to appear in the officially designated veterans affairs room.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
I hope everybody had fun doing their taxes yesterday. And now, going on to better and brighter things, we are in consideration of Bill C-287, Mr. St. Denis' bill respecting a national peacekeepers' day.
We've invited our witnesses, and I'm glad we've had as many of you show up today as we have. It's great. We have Ron Griffis, who is the national president of the Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping; Colonel (Retired) Donald S. Ethell, who is the honorary president of the Gulf War Veterans Association of Canada; Ray Kokkonen, the national vice-president of the Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association; Gerry Wharton, who is with the Army, Navy & Air Force Veterans in Canada Association; and both Jack Frost, dominion president, and Brad White, director of administration, for the Royal Canadian Legion.
Gentlemen, normally we do 20 minutes in total, but I think the way we've arranged it is that you can each take 10 minutes, if you see fit. I understand some of you will not be taking the full 10 minutes, and that's fine. You're allowed to take up to 10 minutes if you wish. After that, there will be questions from our members of Parliament.
The floor is yours.
Ron Griffis National President, Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping
Good morning, Mr. Chairman, committee members, and guests. My name is Ron Griffis, and I'm the national president of the Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping. On behalf of our association, I wish to thank you for giving us this opportunity to appear before this honourable committee, established in part to study Bill C-287, An Act respecting a National Peacekeepers' Day.
The proposed national peacekeepers' day act states that August 9 of each and every year shall be known as national peacekeepers' day. I appreciate that you are aware that the day of August 9 was chosen, as on that day in 1974 nine Canadian Forces peacekeepers were killed when their plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile while en route from Beirut to Damascus on a regular resupply mission. There were no survivors.
This does not take away from the fact that Canada's first casualty on a peacekeeping mission occurred in 1951, when Acting Brigadier H.H. Angle of Kamloops, B.C., died in a plane crash in Kashmir on the border between India and Pakistan.
The Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping supports Bill C-287. A national peacekeepers' day would in fact remember those who gave their lives while on peacekeeping missions, as sponsored by the Canadian government and the United Nations Council, but also to commemorate the brave deeds of peacekeepers and to recognize the well over 100,000 Canadians who have participated in United Nations missions, and also to thank their families and the Canadian people for their support.
Participants in United Nations missions include but are not limited to members of the Canadian Forces. They also include members of the municipal, provincial, and federal police forces, diplomats, and countless civilians who have become peacekeepers and assisted peacekeepers on their missions.
Canadians are recognized as the inventors of peacekeeping. It has brought our country one Nobel prize for peace and the share of a second when the United Nations peacekeepers were awarded the Nobel prize in 1988. To date, I have not heard anyone opposed to establishing a national peacekeepers' day.
Although we have Remembrance Day, November 11 of each year, and some cities and most provinces and territories have recognized August 9 as a day to remember and honour peacekeepers, a national peacekeepers' day would not take away from the importance of the two dates mentioned. In fact, it would complement the dates, taking into consideration why they are there and our present position on the world stage.
The Canadian Peacekeeping Service Medal, established in 1997, is available to persons who have served on international peacekeeping missions. It is a relatively little known fact that the medal is available for those who may have served on any one of 114 peacekeeping missions. National peacekeepers' day is an opportunity to recognize and commemorate peacekeepers past, present, and future.
Canada's peacekeeping veterans have always sacrificed so much and given their best to ensure that our country remains strong, united, independent, and free. It would truly be an honour if the Canadian government announced that it would be taking another step to ensure that Canada is doing its best to recognize peacekeeping veterans.
Since receiving the invitation to appear before this honourable committee, and having shared the news with my colleagues in our association, I have received numerous messages of encouragement and hope that the national peacekeepers' day act would be passed. I have also received messages of excitement from the surviving relatives of those who were killed on August 9, 1974, in the hope that the sacrifices of their family members would be recognized on a national basis.
It is respectfully suggested that the terminology used in the French version of Bill C-287 be amended. To wit, the term “peacekeepers”, as written, is Casques bleus. The words Casques bleus translate in English as “blue helmets” or “blue berets”. It is suggested that the correct translation of “peacekeeper” in French is gardien de la paix. I understand, for those who speak French, Casques bleus is considered as a colloquial, unofficial, or a slang term.
It is probably a little-known fact that peacekeepers may wear a United Nations blue beret; a green beret from AMIS--that is, the African Union Mission in Sudan; an MFO orange beret, which would be the Multinational Force and Observers; or a EUFOR dark blue beret, from the European Union Force in Bosnia and Herzegovina, just to mention a few.
If our association can be of assistance in any way to facilitate the passing of this bill, please do not hesitate to call upon me personally or upon any of our members.
In conclusion, if you have any questions or any areas you wish me to clarify, I'm prepared to be of assistance. Thank you.
Colonel Retired) Donald S. Ethell (Honorary President, Gulf War Veterans Association of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My name is Don Ethell. I'm appearing here for the Gulf War Veterans Association of Canada as their honourary chairman, but I'm also a member of the CAVUNP as well as their past national president and current liaison officer. I've lived with this issue for the better part of 10 years.
Why am I the honourary chair? I didn't serve in the Persian Gulf, but I was in Tel Aviv and other places where the Scuds were landing, and the Gulf War association president said that since Jeff Bentley couldn't make it because of duty in Cold Lake, that was close enough and I was now their honorary president. That's why I'm here.
In the minds of many soldiers, as indicated by my colleague, this bill is extremely important to those of us who have worked diligently throughout the years for this day and look forward to the day this bill is passed in Parliament.
As Ron has said, the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded in 1988. A selected multi-tour veteran who was not an officer, Master Corporal Docksey, represented the Canadian Forces at the ceremony in Norway.
Where did this peacekeepers' day initiative get started? To be quite frank, it started concurrently in Victoria, with members from the Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association, and in Calgary, with our association. We had this idea that there should be a designated day. To cut it short, in the case of Calgary, they convinced the Province of Alberta to recognize it, then the City of Calgary, the City of Victoria, the Province of British Columbia, and it spread across the country. Manitoba and Saskatchewan came on board, and other chapters in CPVA, in the case of New Brunswick.... Eventually all the provinces recognized this as peacekeepers' day, as did the cities of Halifax, Toronto, Montreal, Barrie, Winnipeg, Vancouver, and of course Calgary.
Now is the time for federal recognition.
As mentioned by my colleague, this is not to be confused with Remembrance Day. It's an indication of recognition. We're not looking for a federal holiday per se. It's recognition, and August 9 is stepped off from November 11 sufficiently to prevent any confusion in that regard.
In our opinion, peacekeepers and peacekeeping operations are part of peace support operations, which include peacekeeping, peace maintaining, peace restoring, humanitarian operations, reconstruction, and occasionally elections, so we use that term. The reason I mention it is that as far as we're concerned, on the Wall of Honour in a number of places in Canada the 168 names of the people who have been killed to date since Acting Brigadier Angle was killed in Kashmir in July of 1950 include the 54 people who have been killed in Afghanistan, and that's why we use that all-encompassing term. If you say it's not peacekeeping, it's war--well, in an undeclared war it's still in accordance initially with UN resolution 1707, and since December of last year, it's also in accordance with a United Nations resolution.
So as Ron has indicated, in our opinion, all those organizations--the ECMM, the MFO, the ICCS, for that matter, in Vietnam, the NATO peacekeepers in the Balkans, and our lads and ladies in Afghanistan--are included in that peace support operations definition. In our opinion, they are peacekeepers.
People say it's a war and it's not peacekeeping. I respectfully remind people that we've been involved in wars before, even though we've had blue berets on, in the Congo, in the Medak pocket in the Balkans, and when we fought the Turks for control of Nicosia airport after the Turkish invasion, taking casualties and suffering casualties on both sides. The Airborne Regiment in fact won that battle.
Why was August 9 chosen? As indicated by my colleague here, it was on August 9 that the aircraft was shot down. It had taken off from Ismailia and went up the coast of the Mediterranean; it had stopped at Beirut and was inbound and had clearance to land when three missiles struck it. The pilot was able to dodge the first missile. The second one hit an engine, and the third one took off the tail; obviously, they were all killed.
The Syrians wouldn't admit--and still don't admit--fault, because they thought it was an Israeli attack aircraft. It's a little awkward to buy that, but that was their interpretation.
In my time in the Middle East as the senior liaison officer for the UN between the Syrians and the Israelis, I got to know the senior Syrian Arab delegate officer very well and could never get an admission out of them that they had made a mistake. He said, “Well, the battery commander no longer is in command. He's gone to join his grandfather.” You can picture what that means, at least in the Arabic world.
A number of us have been to the site. It was out of bounds for many years. Prior to the withdrawal of the Canadians from the Golan a year ago, the contingent had permission to go over and have a ceremony. I don't think any of the surviving relatives have had an opportunity to visit the site, just outside a little town called Dimashq.
The remains of those Canadians.... By the way, the two members of our Calgary chapter, retired Lieutenant Colonel—then Lieutenant—Rick Wright, was the signals officer and was on the net when they had dead air and they didn't know what had happened to the aircraft. Obviously, the Canadian movement control people in Damascus were able to finally pass the word back that the aircraft was missing. Another, a member of the Ottawa chapter, a sergeant retired, is Chief Warrant Officer Bruce Reid, who in fact assisted in the loading of the nine ammunition boxes onto the weekly resupply Herc that came down from Germany to pick up those remains. So it's near and dear to our hearts, August 9.
I mentioned the proclamations. I have left with the clerk samples of some of the proclamations: Manitoba, New Brunswick, Calgary, of course, and a couple of others that you may want to look at. I'm sure somebody, if this bill is passed, will come up with a proclamation that's suitably written.
I'd be remiss if I didn't include mention of the Canadian National Peacekeeping Monument here in Ottawa. That was built by retired Colonel John Gardam, a grand old soul. It took a long time to convince the NCC, the National Capital Commission, and others to build it, and we had a massive parade there in the month of October, with contingents to honour all those who have passed. John, the curator, advises that if this bill is passed, or when this bill is passed, they're going to switch their anniversary parade from October to August 9.
As a little personal note on Calgary, I would like to mention that there are two parks in Calgary in one of the redevelopment locations of ex-Canadian Forces Base Calgary. In Garrison Green there's a Peacekeepers Park between Canada Lands Company, assisted annually from Veterans Affairs Canada and ourselves. We raised the $1.6 million to construct this park, with a wall of honour listing 168 names. In fact, the last 22 are being engraved, now that the warm weather is here, in time for the ceremony in August. The second wall is the wall of all the missions, with the missions engraved. To the right is a larger-than-life bronze statue of an “armed”—and I emphasize that word—peacekeeper handing a little doll to a waif. That park was dedicated in 2004.
The second park was built about 400 metres away from this park, and it's called Buffalo Park. We scrounged a propeller from the air force. It was a non-serviceable propeller I think, and it was mounted on a pedestal. There's a pedestal there describing the incidents of August 9, 1974, and listing all of the relatives. We in fact raised the funds to fly in 38 surviving relatives, to pay for their accommodation and transportation. That park was dedicated by the then Minister of Veterans Affairs, Albina Guarnieri, who unfortunately had to stay here because Smokey Smith had to be received here. So we carried on without her. We're very proud of that park.
Secondly, the City of Calgary has renamed all 13 streets within the area after renowned peacekeepers, living and dead: Dallaire, MacKenzie, Tom Hope, and Corporal MacLean, who lost his two legs in an accident in the Sinai on his last day; he had his legs blown off. People like that. Bruce Henwood had his legs blown off in Kuwait. So that's quite an honour in regard to the peacekeepers.
I mentioned the ceremony in 2005. Last year, the current Minister of Veterans Affairs officiated, the Hon. Greg Thompson. Once again, we had the Buffalo aircraft from 442 Squadron in Comox fly over. In fact, we wanted nine parachutists from the Canadian parachute team; unfortunately, there was wind shear, so only four of them made it down...sorry, the other five didn't jump. Don't get me wrong here; there were four who came out in the first drop and then they had to stop. It was very spectacular, a very emotional day, as it is every year, particularly for the surviving relatives, not only of the Buffalo nine, as we call them, but the others who have lost families, not the least of which is Professor Goddard, who lives in Calgary, and others.
I have left sample copies of the programs we have there. I know this is sounding personal, when I'm talking about Calgary, but it's very near and dear to our heart.
To finish off, we, of the Gulf War Veterans Association of Canada, fully support this bill. To use a term we heard yesterday in another meeting, this certainly adds value in recognition of the veterans. I thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
We have some other people.
I assume you folks want to say something.
Ray Kokkonen National Vice-President, Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association
Mr. Chairman, respected committee members, guests, colleagues. I'm Ray Kokkonen, the national vice-president of the Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association, representing Tom Hoppe, our national president, who was unable to be here.
I regret not being able to wear my medals on such an important occasion; however, I was here in Ottawa on unrelated business, and there simply was insufficient time to get my medals from Trout Brook, New Brunswick, to here in two days.
In view of the very appropriate and comprehensive comments by my colleagues, I have only a very simple and short statement to make. The Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association fully and strongly supports the enactment of Bill C-287 and the proclamation of national peacekeepers' day.
Thank you.
Gerry Wharton Honorary Dominion President, Army, Navy and Airforce Veterans in Canada
Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, I'm the honorary Dominion President, of the Army, Navy, and Airforce Veterans in Canada. I'm representing John Thompson, our national president, who resides in Winnipeg and who was unable to be here today.
You heard in some detail the views of my compatriots of the peacekeeping associations, so I'll keep my words brief.
ANAVETS fully supports our comrades in the peacekeeping associations in their quest for a national peacekeepers' day. Over the past century, the thousands of Canadians who have served as peacekeepers, and their families, have, by their sacrifice, earned a gratitude, not only of Canadians but of the citizens of the countries to which they have sought to bring an end to conflict. We believe that 9 August, representing the darkest days in Canada's peacekeeping history, is most significant in honouring our peacekeepers, and we request that that day be declared national peacekeepers' day.
I wish to add that although I speak as a member of a veterans organization, peacekeepers' day should honour not only those in the military but also members of our diplomatic corps, police services, and the many others who have served, and continue to serve, the cause on peacekeeping missions.
Conservative
Jack Frost Dominion President, Royal Canadian Legion
Mr. Chairman, honourable members of Parliament, and comrades all, obviously you know who I am. I am Jack Frost, president of the Royal Canadian Legion. I have with me Brad White, who is the director of administration at our headquarters.
I likewise am only here to add support to the peacekeepers in their bid for this. So on behalf of the 400,000 members of the Royal Canadian Legion, we fully support the passage of BIll C-287 in respect of a national peacekeeping day.
This past June, in Calgary, our convention delegates passed the following resolution, which I would like to read:
WHEREAS the Legion wishes to represent all veterans and recognize the significant contributions that they have made to Canada;
WHEREAS the Legion has issued a definition of a veteran which encompasses traditional war veterans, Cold War veterans, U.N. Peacekeeping veterans, Gulf War veterans and all serving Military personnel;
WHEREAS the Legion acknowledges that the public often refers to these veterans regardless of their background and service affiliation as “Peacekeepers”;
WHEREAS the Legion wishes to welcome and recognize all of these veterans as Ordinary members of the Legion;
WHEREAS the Legion acknowledges that the public wishes to recognize these veterans by the establishment of a “Peacekeeping Day”; and
WHEREAS the establishment of “Peacekeeping Day” would serve as a day of “Recognition” of the contribution and commitment of the Canadian Forces and not as a day of “Remembrance”:
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that Dominion Command petition the government of Canada to recognize all veterans as Peacekeepers and Peacemakers by declaring 9 August as a special “Peacekeeping Day”.
That motion or resolution was passed unanimously in Calgary, and I don't really think I can add any more to support my colleagues in this bid for this bill.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
Thank you very much for all of your presentations. You definitely put some meat on the bones in terms of your personal experiences and history. Now we're going to open it up to some of the questions.
Mr. St. Denis, you have the first seven minutes, sir.
Liberal
Brent St. Denis Liberal Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for your presentations and expressions of support. I am honoured to have the role of sponsor of this bill, and I'm very proud to be the sponsor of the bill. It's only by coincidence that I'm a member of this committee and that a bill of a member is in front of the same committee. It's a happy circumstance for me. I appreciate all the expressions of support.
I like to give credit where credit is due. Mention has already been made of the efforts made in years past, in Calgary and other areas that you mentioned, Mr. Ethell, which through their efforts have promoted the idea of a peacekeepers' day. We have, as you say, several provinces and municipalities that have done so.
It was a member of the Elliot Lake Legion branch in my riding who came to me and said, “Isn't it finally the time?” It's nice to see individual initiatives spawned by the efforts of large organizations. His name is Robert Manuel, from Elliot Lake, and he's a member of the Elliot Lake branch and a Korean veteran. He said, “Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have a national day?” So I want to give credit to Robert Manuel for inspiring me to bring this bill forward.
It is essentially modelled after the Ontario version of the bill. If there were some minor tweaking that needed to be done, I'm sure if this bill goes forward, which I hope it does, the committee might entertain things. We can discuss the French translation, if necessary, of “peacekeeping”, and the number, whether it's 164 or 160 or whether we should take it out. Minor tweaking wouldn't be a problem.
I'm very glad to hear, and there wouldn't be one of us as members of Parliament who wouldn't say it, that our involvement at veterans' events in our ridings are the highlights of our annual schedule. It takes nothing away from Remembrance Day and Remembrance Week to have other days through the year to help remind the public of the importance of remembrance.
To me, this is an example of how strong the remembrance movement has become. For that, we can thank the Legion, all of the other veterans associations across the country, and the local cadet organizations and volunteers who make sure that the public never forgets and that we remember how we got to where we are.
I may have time to deal with one question, the idea that there are others outside the military—the police, diplomats, and civilians were mentioned—and in the mind of the public and of those who organize local events. I would want to be careful, personally, about over-defining things, because in the mind of one person, such and such an activity might be peacekeeping and in the mind of another maybe not. I really wanted to avoid definitions in the bill, leaving it open to interpretation, so that the broader community would all feel comfortable.
Do any of you feel that it's necessary to mention civilians and diplomats, or, as simple as the bill is, are you able to interpret it as large enough to include the broader group of those who participate in peacekeeping? Is the simple version now sufficient?
Honorary Dominion President, Army, Navy and Airforce Veterans in Canada
I would certainly bow to your experience on this, sir, and I would not make a strong case of my point.
National President, Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping
There's no problem with the national association either. That's a very good point. We have no problem.
Liberal
Brent St. Denis Liberal Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
In other words, the less definition, the better?
National President, Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping
Yes.
Liberal
Brent St. Denis Liberal Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
Okay. I think that moves the fences out far and makes the field large. Those who feel they are part of that community and part of that commemoration can easily come inside the fence.
Col Donald S. Ethell
The current RCMP in Afghanistan and those who worked with us in the Balkans and so forth are brothers in arms. And it would have been nice to have the municipal police; there are quite a few of them who have participated.
But your point is taken. Maybe it should be couched.... And there's the diplomat who was killed in Afghanistan on patrol with our lads. So maybe there could be a general statement, as you've indicated, sir, saying “those who have served on peacekeeping operations”, and just leave it at that, rather than trying to be too definitive.
Liberal
Brent St. Denis Liberal Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
Okay.
And I assume that August 9 is the day used by all the participating provinces and municipalities now?
Col Donald S. Ethell
There's a caveat to that, because of scheduling and so forth. Calgary and a couple of other organizations go to the Sunday closest to August 9, because if it's a Tuesday in an urban area, it's awkward. Because of availability of ministers, and this year the Prime Minister, and so forth, it's moved, as I say, to the Sunday closest to August 9.
Liberal
Brent St. Denis Liberal Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
So the date...notwithstanding local flexibility. I have at least one Legion branch that goes to the closest Sunday. They are a particularly elderly group and they go to the closest Sunday, indoors, because it accommodates their community.
Are you aware of any significant differences in the interpretation of a peacekeepers' day in the current circumstance, where we have a sort of mosaic or patchwork of commemorations? Is there anything obvious to you that is special or unique about a commemoration in, say, Queen's Park or in Montreal that is missed in a sort of generalized bill such as we have in front of us now?