Veterans Affairs Committee on May 1st, 2007

[Ron Griffis]

To the best of our knowledge at this time, the bill is all-encompassing. It's a very good bill.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

And the idea is that it would be the Peace Tower flag only at half-mast, that there would be no other half-masting at federal properties across the country, or even in the other buildings, as I understand it; it would simply be the Peace Tower.

In the case of Vimy Ridge Day, the Dominion Command, in their list of days when you put things at half-mast, has put April 9 as one of those days.

It would still be voluntary on the part of the Legion to do it, but it may be that local Legion branches or others might voluntarily do it.

In my case, as a member of Parliament, it gives me one more occasion to contact my schools and indicate to the children and the media that here is another important occasion for remembering how we got to where we are and the sacrifices it took to get here.

[Ron Griffis]

There's no problem with us.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Okay.

Well, I certainly want to give as much time as possible to my colleagues, so I will thank you very much for your support today.

[Ron Griffis]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

All right. Thank you, Mr. St. Denis.

Now we go on to Monsieur Perron for seven minutes.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For once, I will not be using all of my time. As we are almost 100% in agreement on the bill, I will be sharing my time with my friend Roger.

I would like to go back to what Don said earlier. Why do Quebeckers refer to you as blue helmets? Well, it is because, in French, the term gardien de la paix is also used to refer to somebody who supervises children in a school yard or municipal park. However, when Quebeckers hear the term blue helmets, they automatically think of you, gentlemen.

I have no problem with using the term peacekeeper. However, I would prefer to add “blue helmets” so that it is clear we are referring to peacekeepers in the English sense of the word. I am not comfortable with people associating you with school yard monitors. It is important to be clear. I do not mind whether you use the term “peacekeepers”, “peacekeeping” or whatever you see fit, but we need to add “blue helmets” because that is what you are to Quebeckers.

I still have certain concerns regarding the date. I propose May 29. I will let my colleague, Roger, explain why we think this is the best idea. May 29 is the International Day of the United Nations Peacekeepers.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

Good morning, everybody.

Let us not get bogged down in semantics. I am not comfortable with choosing August 9, I would prefer May 29. It is not a matter of partisan politics, I just want to make sure that the leaders of all four political parties will be in Ottawa. They are usually in Ottawa in May, because Parliament sits until June.

August 9 falls in the middle of summer—people, including most peacekeepers and their families, will be on vacation. Local newspapers publish “light” issues during the vacation. Furthermore, as Mr. St. Denis said, it will not be discussed in schools, because the children will still be on vacation.

It is up to you, but I think that May 29 would lend the day additional patriotic value. We could have a ceremony in Ottawa and all members of Parliament could attend.

That is just my opinion, it is up to you to decide. I would like to hear what you have to say.

[Col Donald S. Ethell]

In regard to the first question, I'll yield to my colleague, if I may. It's one of his members, a francophone from Montreal, who brought up this observation. So I'll leave that to him.

Personally, I agree with you. Blue helmets have been synonymous with peacekeeping.

Having said that, going to the second point you make, sir, it's a laudable suggestion. But if you were to tie it to the United Nations peacekeeping day, that would eliminate all those peacekeepers who have participated in other missions--as articulated, the European Community monitoring mission in Yugoslavia, which I served on, or the Multinational Force orange berets monitoring the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, in the Gulf of Aqaba and so forth. I served on that. It would eliminate that. It would eliminate those who served in Vietnam on the ICCS, the truce commission.

It would eliminate these people if it were tied to May 29. That's a very important day in the United Nations, but as we've indicated, we've had peacekeepers involved in all of those missions, plus the NATO people in the Balkans, in the Middle East.

So I hear you, sir, but I don't necessarily agree.

Ron.

[Ron Griffis]

With respect to Casques bleus as opposed to gardiens de la paix, our colleagues out of Montreal and out of Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu brought this matter to my attention. They suggested that the changes be made. They look at it from the point of view that they want it to be correct, or correct in their opinion.

This was brought up by Karl Morel, our chapter president in Montreal, and our chapter in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, and we supported that. We thought it was a good idea because there is an organization, a very small organization, called the Blue Helmets--they're not represented here today, perhaps they're with the NCVA--and it would maybe centre them out as being the only ones the peacekeepers' day was for.

As I've indicated, this was brought up by our Montreal and our Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu chapters.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

To your mind, what is the difference between the words “peacekeeper” and “peacekeeping”?

[Ron Griffis]

I don't know the answer to that question. I appreciate your point of view, that it could be with respect to the school crossing guard or to some parents who are guardians. By the same token, this is the term they suggested.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I do not have my dictionary with me, but, as I understand it, the term “peacekeeper” refers to a particular event, while “peacekeeping” is used when talking about a vision. I think that peacekeeping refers to the act of preserving peace around the world, while a peacekeeper is involved in a particular event. That is what I understand to be the basic difference between “peacekeeping” and “peacekeeper”.

Based on my definition, do you prefer the term “peacekeeping” or “peacekeepers”?

[Ron Griffis]

We would prefer peacekeeping. And I know that term is going to grow, as we grow. It's going to grow into peacemaking in the elections and things of that nature.

We would prefer guardians of the peace, gardiens de la paix. That's what we would prefer.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, sir.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I would like to hear Jack's comments on my suggestion of May 29. I am not saying that your opinion is not valid.

I would like May 29 to be as important for the blue helmets as November 11, Remembrance Day, is for veterans. I am really not too concerned about whether we refer to “peacekeeping” or “peacekeepers”. What matters is that people remember what you did and pay homage to the memory of those who died in action.

August 9 would not work as well. It would not be the same as having the opportunity to mark it in the House of Commons and talk about it all across Canada.

That is my opinion, I would like to hear yours.

[Ray Kokkonen]

I would like to comment on both issues, in very short form.

From the sound of the discussion back and forth on the blue helmet term, I think perhaps that could go back for a little bit further study instead of trying to make a decision here. Obviously there are different opinions.

With regard to May 29, I do note that there is significant historical momentum for August 9 for Canada, including all of the preceding years when this was recognized throughout all of the provinces. To try to change that date now would be a bit questionable.

Thank you.

[Jack Frost]

I would like to add my comments on it, and I appreciate what you said, Roger. However, I would defer to Comrade Ethell's comments on particularly the 9th of August, being that it's a date that basically has already been recognized across Canada as a unique day to Canadian Forces personnel, a unique day to our Canadian Forces veterans.

As to the “blue helmets”, again I refer to Comrade Ron, because if we're going to keep this as generic as possible, then once you have “blue helmets” in there, you automatically associate that strictly to a military operation and you dissociate that with a diplomatic corps or with other personnel who've assisted in peace operations. So I would personally defer to both Don and Ron with their comments.

[Gerry Wharton]

I think, to keep it brief, Jack has expressed my views perfectly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Now we'll go to Mr. Stoffer for five minutes.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

We should have these gentlemen in question period; we'd get a lot more questions if we kept it brief.

First of all, gentlemen, thank you very much for appearing before us today on this important issue. Also, happy May Day to you, International Workers' Day.

This week, of course, as you know, there are week-long celebrations in the country of my birth, Holland, for the liberation on May 5. On May 4, in Halifax, we'll be having a commemoration of the over 5,700 Canadians buried on Dutch soil. So I thank you for that.

Last Wednesday I had the honour of being in Gagetown for the commemoration of the eight soldiers who were recently killed. I remember speaking to one reporter who was there, and he said, “You know, it's the greatest loss of life in one day since Korea”, and I reminded him, “No, there were others”, in this incident here, the nine. He had no idea about it.

So I want to thank you again for reiterating for the record, for people who read our comments, I guess, to know what happened on that fateful day on August 9, because we tend to forget that. This is why I think having this type of recognition on a national peacekeepers' day, or however you wish to word it, is important to pass on what happened, especially for the family members of these brave soldiers.

I have just a couple of questions for you. Were the remains of these individuals brought home?

[Col Donald S. Ethell]

Yes, they were, sir, and that was a little unusual at the time, because there are Canadian peacekeepers and those in the Second World War who are buried in the Commonwealth cemeteries in Kantara in the Sinai, and in the Gaza, and the cemetery in Beirut and Damascus, for that matter. But in this case, they were brought home. At that time, we didn't have ramp ceremonies. The remains were put on the back of a Herc and were brought home.

God bless what they do with our fallen in Afghanistan. That's great. But that didn't happen in our days and many others.

So they were brought home. There wasn't much left.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

I guess my only other comment is that I want to thank all of you for your unanimous support for this particular initiative. We greatly appreciate that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer.

Now we'll go to Mrs. Hinton for seven minutes.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to split my time with my colleague, Mr. Shipley.

First of all, I'd like to begin by thanking you, Mr. Griffis, for a piece of information today, regarding Kamloops having the first peacekeeper. That's new to me. I didn't realize that we had that honour, but I wanted to assure you that we carry on that tradition today, that we are still very, very heavily involved in peacekeeping.

You mentioned a lot of other things in your conversation today. I'm going to be having dinner with the Cold Lake boys next week, so I'll give your regards to all of them.

One of the things that I keep hearing over and over when you're having this conversation today is that you keep saying “peacekeeping” instead of “peacekeepers”. It's actually a title I prefer, personally, because I think it's much more all-encompassing. I'm not sure if that has been accidental or if that's how you feel as well, but I think changing it from “peacekeepers' day” to “peacekeeping day” includes a lot more people, and some of those people are the kind of people we were mentioning earlier, men and women from Kamloops and all across this country who are in places of war, who are doing their absolute best for peacekeeping.

The other issue that came up, which I found rather interesting, is this date issue. May 29 is recognized as the International Day of United Nations Peacekeepers. There are a number of points that were raised that I thought were very valid. I think it would be wonderful to be able to be here and actually participate in something, rather than have it in August, but of course that's just my personal view. I never even thought of it until it was raised by the Bloc members here.

The other concern I had is that I would like to make certain that we include diplomats and civilians. In the case of Glyn Berry, for example, who was killed in Afghanistan, I wouldn't want people who had lost their lives for the cause to be excluded from this either.

Those are just comments I wanted to make, and I'll pass the rest of my time on to my colleague, Bev Shipley.