Veterans Affairs Committee on May 1st, 2007

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you.

Again, I don't know that there are a lot of questions.

I want to thank Mr. St. Denis for bringing such a bill forward. It does recognize the need that has been out there for some time.

I also want to say to you that I experienced likely one of the most extraordinary times of my life at Vimy, as we recognized, in one particular incident, what the Canadian people, the veterans, had given, and partook in how Canada is recognized and acknowledged around the world for the work it does, not always in our homeland but for democracy and freedom. I just want to say thank you for those who were there, for those who were allowed to be at it. Mr. St. Denis was there, Mr. Perron, the chair, Mr. Anders, and myself had to the opportunity to be there.

I just wanted to mention that.

I have listened to you. I think what we're trying to do is make the bill as meaningful and as correct as we can. These, in some cases, are wordsmithing, but I also believe the word “peacekeeping” is inclusive of those who would be acknowledged in this bill, and I'm hearing the support from you for that.

Mrs. Hinton mentioned including diplomats and civilians. I wouldn't mind that we'd have included this in that first paragraph, after, “many members of the Canadian police services”, “and diplomats and civilians”. Would you have some comments about that? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it, please.

[Col Donald S. Ethell]

If I may, I'll start with the question you put, and Mrs. Hinton, in regard to the term “peacekeepers”.

I agree with the term “peacekeepers”. To be quite frank, there's been a lot of internal discussion, if not arguments, about whether it should be peacekeepers' memorial day, peacekeepers' day, peacekeeping day, and so forth. It was generally accepted, and is generally accepted, by the provinces and the various cities that they use the term “peacekeepers”, which includes peacekeepers, peacekeeping, peace maintaining, etc., as we articulated. It's up to you to wordsmith it, but our organization would prefer “peacekeepers”.

Secondly, on the dates, May 29 doesn't mean too much to the peacekeepers. Sure, it's a big thing in the UN, it's an important date, but it doesn't really mean much. There's no real link to what we've been doing. It's the same as when the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded; there was no follow-up by the then Canadian government, there or on peacekeepers' day, as to what the peacekeepers should be noting and what they should glean out of those two days. It doesn't mean too much, from a grassroots level.

As for diplomats, Mr. Berry's name is in fact engraved on the Wall of Honour. Whether that's kosher or not, we don't care. He died. Dead is dead, and he was serving his country. So I think we should keep it a general term of those who have served, as we indicated from Mr. St. Denis' question and so forth, so you're not going to miss anybody who's dropping through the cracks.

[Ron Griffis]

The difference between “peacekeeper” and “peacekeeping” I think is very minimal. To that extent, it encompasses what we would like, and that's the remembrance and the commemoration of those—well over 300,000 Canadians—who have served on peacekeeping missions.

[Gerry Wharton]

My knowledge of grammar is a bit shaky, but when one hears the word “peacekeeping”, that seems to me to be honouring the act of keeping peace, whereas a “peacekeeper” honours the individual who's employed in that act. I believe the word “peacekeeper” is more meaningful and stronger.

[Jack Frost]

I would really hate to get hung up on the semantics of “peacekeeping” or “peacemaking”. Each and every individual, and especially the veterans organizations, know what August 9 means, not only to the veteran group but to anybody who served Canada overseas in the mission of helping keep the peace. So I'd hate to see us get hung up on semantics here. I personally believe “peacekeepers” is the ideal word.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you. I think I'm out of time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Just out of time.

Now on to Ms. Guarnieri for five minutes.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I know that the Department of Veterans Affairs has had some great partners, all of whom are around the table today as witnesses, but I must confess, the first bit of advice I received from Jack Stagg on the job in 2005 was to ask Don for advice. So you certainly command the greatest respect at Veterans Affairs, sir.

You all deserve our thanks for setting the standard for how our peacekeepers should be remembered and respected.

There was a reference made earlier that almost half a century ago, Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson received the Nobel Peace Prize for his part in creating the modern United Nations peacekeeping role. He said at the time that “There can be no enduring and creative peace if people are unfree”. Since that time, Canadian peacekeepers have earned the gratitude of nations for putting their lives at risk to block the road to war, and that is exactly what our peacekeepers do. They are measured not by battles necessarily won but by battles prevented and lives spared.

So I simply want to congratulate my colleague Mr. Brent St. Denis for bringing forward an initiative that I think I predicted to you in one of my speeches, Don, is long overdue. Certainly, I hope it can garner the support of all the members for a speedy entrance back to Parliament to have it ratified.

[Col Donald S. Ethell]

If I may, Madame, I'm not a political person, but I know that when you were the minister, the idea of having a peacekeepers' day was on your agenda, on your radar screen. We almost made it work one year.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

I just needed a little bit more time.

[Col Donald S. Ethell]

Sorry, that's out of my responsibility; it's way out of my league.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Col Donald S. Ethell]

Suffice it to say it has gone forward, and I thank you for your initiative, and of course the committee, and Mr. St. Denis for sponsoring the bill.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Now on to Monsieur Gaudet for five minutes.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I prefer “peacekeeping”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

You just carry on. We'll have to come back to the Liberals for a couple of minutes. It's okay; they'll figure it out. Go ahead.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I would like to comment on what my colleague from the Liberal Party said when I made my speech at the beginning of the House's study of my friend Brent's bill.

I said, and I would like to reiterate, that one of the founding fathers of the United Nations and the blue helmets was the then Prime Minister, Lester B. Pearson. As I said earlier, I am 200% behind this bill. All that remains for us to do, colleagues, as a committee, is to decide on the date and the best term to use, in French, for “peacekeeper”, etc.

The members of the Bloc Québécois fully support the substantive elements of the bill.

[Ron Griffis]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Okay. All right. This is funky. So you're done.

Now we're going to head back over to the Liberals because Ms. Guarnieri wanted to pass on her surplus time. I'm guessing that Mr. Valley has about three minutes, roughly.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This doesn't often happen. We usually guard our time very jealously on this committee.

I want to thank Mr. Brent St. Denis for bringing this forward. Thank you for coming today. We've heard what we need to hear I think and nothing less than we expected.

I do have to say I'm glad Mr. Ethell cleared up that one fact about the parachutists jumping out of the plane and only four landing, because I was pretty sure when you jumped out, like death and taxes, only one result was going to happen. Thank you for that.

[Col Donald S. Ethell]

It was a very big plane, I might add.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

On the May 29 issue, this goes back to my long involvement in Remembrance Day services and everything else. It was always something that was near and dear to my heart, and to my family; we attended the Remembrance Day services on November 11. I was quite shocked, actually, when I became a member of Parliament, to realize that I wouldn't be able to spend it in my home town. I had more than 40 years running that I'd been to that event. Now I have to move around. I have quite a few communities I go to.

For me, I would much sooner be in my riding on August 9, if that's the date. To be here in Ottawa is fine, but the Hill doesn't mean as much to me as it does to be in my riding. To celebrate it with the people in the riding would be the most important thing for me. For that reason, I think August 9 is a much better day.

So thank you for your efforts. We're going to get this done.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

All right. Everybody's being short and sweet here.

We'll now go to the real person who's sweet--Mr. Sweet, for five minutes.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'll echo what other people have said about Mr. St. Denis' efforts with this bill, you coming here today, and the service you've given to Canada and to veterans.

My concern on the bill is this. The building we're sitting in burned down during the First World War and was subsequently rebuilt. The tower out front was called the Victoria Tower. Of course, everything around here is called “Victoria” because it was Queen Victoria who named this as the capital of Canada. The tower was rebuilt subsequent to the actual Centre Block.

At that time, we had sent 10% of our male population into battle. We always talk about punching above our weight, and we certainly did in the First World War. We sent 10% of our population into battle, and of course 10% of those, 1% of our entire male population, were killed in the First World War.

The Peace Tower was subsequently built as a memorial for peace, particularly for those who fell. Of course, there's Vimy, where we commemorated the 10,000 casualties and some 3,600 fatalities that happened.

From that, a tradition began where the flag would be lowered once a year to equally recognize every person who fell in the service of Canada. Traditions are the embodiment of life. They resonate down to the very core of the identity of a nation in this sense.

To me, changing a tradition is something that should be done very carefully, with great caution and with great forethought and reflection. Although I echo everything that was said here about the basic principles of this bill, my concern is it would change a tradition that's been going on for 80 years, where the flag comes down once a year to equally recognize every veteran.

I don't know if you agree with how I feel, but it's my concern. I want to get your input on that aspect of the bill too, please.