Veterans Affairs Committee on June 14th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

That's very kind of you, sir. Thank you.

I see people up and getting around. Stay in the room. We have some other things to deal with.

There is this issue of when the House will break. I don't know. I have no crystal ball on these matters. My general sense, for whatever members wish, is that I believe the government whip is waiting to see what will be done with Bill C-52, or the budget, in the Senate. If the Senate sees fit to have that budget bill move out of there without significant amendment, then I think the House will rise for the summer. If the Senate makes substantive amendments to the budget, then I think the House will wait until that bill has a chance to come back and be re-amended by the House.

Anyhow, that's all in the hands of the Senate, and I understand there were probably discussions with regard to this amongst the official opposition caucus on Wednesday morning, which I was not privy to, but I'm sure the issue was raised.

That being said, we do have questions. A lot of other committees are wrapping up their business and closing down for next week, pending the House closure.

Monsieur Gaudet, I notice you had your hand up.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I move that we immediately stop our work. There is no point since we won't be here next week. Why call witnesses and make our clerk and our researcher work on other things? They will start to complete their reports and, in September, we will be wearing to go. I don't know whether the other members have a different suggestion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Okay, Mr. Gaudet.

Mrs. Hinton.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I believe we probably will be here next week. I have a notice of motion I want to put in front of this committee. Unfortunately, it requires 48 hours and I did not have 48 hours, so I couldn't put it in front of the committee today. I'll go with the will of the board. I will, if necessary, send a memo to each member in both French and English as to what that motion is. We can deal with it when the House reopens, if in fact the House does go down before I believe it's going to go down.

Otherwise, I'd like to present the motion. We can call an ad hoc meeting, if you will, because I want it dealt with.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I understand that--

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

The motion is for clarification from the committee as to what direction we're going to go in. We made a decision at the very beginning of this committee's sitting as to what it was we were going to discuss. We have discussed a bit today with the peacekeeper witness, a bit about what's going on with VIP, but we need to move forward with VIP. We've been talking about something else for probably the last seven meetings, which is extremely important, and that is the PTSD issue, but that is not what we planned as a committee to move forward with. I need some direction from this committee. I've asked it before.

If the committee prefers to go down the road of the PTSD or look at some other issue, then I need to know that this is the way it's going to be, so I can instruct government to carry on with the VIP improvements without the committee's input.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Before we carry on this discussion, I want everyone to understand where we are in the process.

Mr. Gaudet has moved a motion to adjourn, basically, for the summer. I would be willing to second that. I do consider it a valid motion.

The issue that then comes up is that Mrs. Hinton can't propose a motion while we're dealing with another motion, but she can talk to the motion and, in doing so, raise this issue of potentially raising a motion after we deal with Mr. Gaudet's motion. We're still speaking officially to Mr. Gaudet's motion, but you can talk as you wish with regard to the broad spectrum of things relating to it.

Mr. St. Denis.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Are you saying I can or can't talk about Betty's motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

The motion on the floor is Mr. Gaudet's. I will also add that for Ms. Hinton's motion to be accepted, because it requires 48 hours' consent, etc., we'd have to have unanimous consent for her to move the motion.

You can speak as you wish, knowing those things.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

That's pretty clear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I think it is, actually, Mr. St. Denis.

We are dealing with Mr. Gaudet's motion. Just know that Mrs. Hinton, afterwards.... Well, if Mr. Gaudet's motion were to fail, then Mrs. Hinton would probably raise her motion and ask for unanimous consent to present it.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

What I would say about Roger's motion is that while probably in our heart of hearts we all want to get out of here ASAP, it's outside the ambit of our committee to determine that, obviously. If we are here, nothing says we can't have a business meeting.

I'd be concerned, Roger, that if we adjourn the committee, we couldn't meet Tuesday morning to discuss business. We don't need witnesses to do business. That would be my only concern. I support the spirit of it, which is let's get to work in our ridings. However, I wouldn't want to close the door that if we are forced to be here, we couldn't at least meet to do business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Mr. Gaudet, I don't know if we can amend that or make that a friendly amendment. I'll let you speak to that.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

That we adjourn with respect to witnesses.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I got an update this morning and I think that all the committees are finishing their work today. I don't know whether Mr. Roger is aware of what is happening. Holding a meeting just to hold a meeting, would this change anything if we finished today or next Tuesday? Give me a good reason for me to withdraw my motion. So far, I haven't heard any. If we are still here next Thursday, I will be angry. I want to be in Parliament to work, but not to chew the fat.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Monsieur Gaudet, I understand where you're coming from on this matter. I also suspect we may not be here. It is true that other committees are wrapping up.

Mr. Shipley.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

The government clearly wants to have some idea where we're going, yet I want to respect Roger's motion. We have another half hour here. As far as having committee input, we could deal with Roger's motion if he will defer it until the end of the meeting. We could have some discussion about where we're going, where this committee wants to take us, for another 20 minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

You can discuss it within the parameters of the motion, but since the motion has been put I don't think we can say we're going to push the motion.

It's perfectly fine for you to discuss these matters inside the motion. But I would caution the committee that at some point, whether it's next week or whatever, we will have a break of three months. I imagine you will bring fresh thoughts about the proceedings of the committee three months hence. Anyway, I leave you to ruminate on those things.

Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

I appreciate your point of view as well, Mr. Chairman, but time is always of the essence. The health care review is very important. Even the opposition parties continually go back to the VIP program. We know it's important to everybody to try to make sure that the whole health care review can feed into a sustainable, broader-based program.

I also understand the clerk's difficulty in trying to get witnesses. But if there's any kind of work we can do next week that doesn't depend on getting witnesses from far-flung areas, we should do it. If it's a local witness, it won't be a big inconvenience to them if we cancel them because we can't go ahead with the meeting. But if there's some aspect of the health care review we can get moving on, then I think we should.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Okay.

Mrs. Hinton.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I don't object to the motion before the committee right now. I bow to the will of the committee. I tried to make it clear earlier that my motion would have been in front of you had it not been for the 48-hour notice.

I can't meet the 48-hour notice, but I can send you the motion in writing so that each member has a copy of it. It'll be in both French and English, because as you all know, it takes time for the interpretation portion of it. I'm perfectly content to handle it that way if the House goes down. I just want you to be aware that it's the first thing I would like dealt with in September when we come back.

I'm not trying to make things difficult for anyone, but we definitely need an understanding at this committee as to which direction we're going. So I'm perfectly willing to vote on Mr. Gaudet's motion at this time, and I will serve notice in writing to each member.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Monsieur Perron.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

We are talking for the sake of talking. We are currently discussing a motion. I understand Ms. Hinton's position and I'm prepared to ask her to send us her motion by e-mail. If the chair decides, after obtaining Ms. Hinton's motion, that we need to meet urgently, he has the power to say that there is a meeting Tuesday or Thursday.

I think that we should vote on Mr. Gaudet's motion and you should exercise your power to call us back here Tuesday or Thursday if you determine that Ms. Hinton's motion should be debated. I so move and I would call the question on Mr. Gaudet's motion.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

[Inaudible--Editor]...for a friendly amendment to Roger's...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

We are getting into dicey territory because people are asking that the question now be put.

Mr. St. Denis.