Veterans Affairs Committee on April 29th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Okay, you've read it.

Do you have any comments, thoughts?

Mr. Valley.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

With all due respect, I don't agree with the Speaker's verdict at all, in any way. We understand what the Memorial Chamber is; it serves a purpose. This room is a place for veterans to come and talk to us. I don't think it would hurt us to do this. I think he took it to the House leaders committee for support of perhaps his own thoughts, and he has a lot of history here. I think the Memorial Chamber, as I just stated, has its purpose and everything else. There's nothing wrong with having a room where veterans can actually come and talk about situations they face. This is designated for them.

The memorial room was done.... The Speaker lets us know very clearly what years and why it was done. I don't see how that impacts us declaring this the veterans room. I have no idea what recourse we have either.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Understood. My guess is, talking to the various people--the House leaders and whatnot for the various parties, I would imagine, is where this goes next.

Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Of course, I was involved with the discussion and agreed at the time, but I think you know how strongly I feel about tradition and what I spoke about before.

We had the leaders here from, I believe, six veterans organizations when I discussed the tradition in the Peace Tower. The Memorial Chamber being in the Peace Tower, my initial tendency right now--after receiving this letter--is to agree with the Speaker. But because of the nature of the magnitude of it and how he's shed some new light on it, I think it should be cause for pause and some reflection on our parts before we go ahead.

I don't think there will be a restriction, as far as what we had mentioned before, about putting some art in this room. But I do understand about an official designation and how there may be a concern of diminishing what is already there, which is quite grand in and of itself.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Mr. St. Denis.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

With respect to the Speaker, I don't know if he was taking advice from the House leaders--we don't know the dynamic that was involved there--but I would politely argue to the contrary. I have two points.

We have the Railway Committee Room. We have the Banking Room. We have other rooms.

I'm happy and proud to have been involved in the preparation of Vimy Ridge Day, and hopefully Peacekeepers Day and so on, and those days, in my view, add to the remembrance activities in the country. They add on to November 11. I've always thought that way.

So it would seem to me that having a veterans room, salle des anciens combattants, would enhance.... The Memorial Chamber is not a meeting room. It's just that. I think it's totally in order to have a room so that when the veterans organizations come--or if they're here most of the time--they see it as their room.

What's wrong with appealing and making some additional arguments? If there is agreement, I'd be glad to help Alex add a few points, and everybody else could add their points.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Okay, that's fair.

Monsieur Perron.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I agree with Brent and Roger. In this forum we defend and help veterans who are still living, while veterans who have died are honoured in the Memorial Chamber. Why do we have a war room in the Senate where meetings of the National Defence committee are always held? We should appeal the Speaker's decision and demand that meetings be held in the veterans room.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I'm glad we're discussing this. There are nuances that come out with regard to the arguments, and I appreciate that.

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I remember very well the same discussion we had when David Pratt was the chair of the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs, when we moved the motion to have room 362 in the East Block designated the War Room. And I remember the diminishment and the argument of the memorial room, whether it would take away from that. Absolutely not. All it did was state that in room 362 there would be very tasteful, decorative artwork. There would be a small certificate or a plaque from the chair, which is very respectful. Not one person ever accused room 362 of being a memorial room.

This is not to be a memorial room. I would be the first one, like David Sweet, to argue that. This is just a working room so that when veterans, and especially their representatives, come in, they can feel at home and meet, discuss, and talk with parliamentarians--and whomever else, for that matter--about issues of the day that affect veterans and their families.

This is the exact same response David Pratt got. We should challenge them respectfully and indicate to Peter that we do not want this to be a memorial room. That's the last thing we want. We want this to be tastefully decorated so that it indicates to people when they come here that this room is a veterans' working room.

In 2004, when I wrote to everybody about the veterans committee, of having a stand-alone committee, I was told we couldn't do it because of the expense. In 2006, one of the first things the new government did was set up a veterans committee. Expense wasn't a problem then. We're not asking for money. We're just asking for consideration that this be like the Aboriginal Room down below, the Reading Room, and all these other ones that we have, and that this would be respected in those terms.

I think in the highlight of discussions of veterans and their families, this is just one more small way that we as parliamentarians can say thank you to those Canadians who serve. I told that gentleman who was here in uniform the other day, supporting his wife, who was a doctor, that we had a motion to make this room a certain room, but that we hadn't got it finalized yet. You should have seen the smile on his face. He was really proud.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

It might be worth it for me to approach Mr. Pratt to see how he navigated his way around this.

I realize we do have bells ringing, members.

Monsieur Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Why not have the Speaker come before the committee? That would settle the matter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

The clerk has indicated there is a precedent for calling the Speaker before a committee. Maybe we should examine a few of these other things first, before we decide to make that call.

Ms. Guarnieri.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

I think most of my colleagues have made the case I would have made. But if my memory serves me correctly, the vote was unanimous. Committees are a creature of the House, so the House should be supreme.

Maybe we can take it upon ourselves to talk to our House leaders and have them reverse this decision. From my perspective, you can't have too many ways to commemorate veterans. To be quite frank, I don't really buy the argument that's been made in the letter.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

The House leaders are afraid to lose their meeting room, because I think they're having a meeting here. This is the real reason.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Mr. St. Denis.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Mr. Chair, independent thinker that you are, I propose that you simply stand up some day and move a motion for the House to adopt. We think you're an independent guy. You're not afraid of repercussions and things.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

He's an independent man.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Fair enough. I'll take that under consideration.

Thank you very much. It will all be considered. We'll visit this issue again.

The meeting is adjourned.