Veterans Affairs Committee on June 5th, 2008

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

That's right, sir.

We trained those doctors. We also have six military hospitals in Germany, and in two of those hospitals we now have a branch that deals only with those soldiers suffering from PTSD. And we have made some good progress in helping those soldiers overcome those wounds.

The hardest case was a soldier who went accidentally into a minefield and lost both legs and both arms. This amputee is now not only suffering from his physical wounds, he is also suffering from PTSD. And while he was lying in this minefield, he was attacked. You can imagine that this is the worst case we have had. To help this guy is nearly impossible.

But in lesser cases--I like to use the term “minor effects” of PTSD--the symptoms include sleeplessness and feeling warm and cold. Those are things that are pretty quickly treated.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Does that include nightmares?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Nightmares are helped pretty quickly. But when there are other things, the breakup of families or friendships, for example, those people go into isolation. These people need a long time and long-term care.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you very much. That was a touching and fascinating story.

Now we'll go over to the New Democratic Party, and Mr. Stoffer, for five minutes.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Sir, it's good to see you again. Welcome to the committee.

Sir, you said earlier that if a soldier is looking after his parents or her parents, the parents are entitled to some kind of benefit if that soldier dies. If the soldier is a single individual with no children and no spouse, and he dies, would the parents receive the €250,000?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

In that case, no, the parents would not get this pension. Unless he was responsible for the parents because the parents are no longer able to fulfill their duties and stuff by themselves, no, they won't get this money. The money is lost in those cases.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

We found out, too, that the children of married soldiers who come back suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder suffer a lot as well, as do the spouses. Are there any programs in place in Germany to help those children deal with their psychological problems?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Family members are involved in the same program as the soldiers. Thank you very much for this remark, sir, because it's one of those things I know very well myself. I have three kids, and my wife stayed with me here and she knows about those effects too and what they mean. We are away for eight months, and what this means to the kids, especially when she has to manage all the situations by herself.... Yes, there is also some caretaking for the kids if those kids are identified as having some of those symptoms.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Sir, in Canada we also have a program called the veterans independence program, whereby when soldiers are elderly or have a certain income or a certain disability and are in their sixties, seventies, or eighties, we try to encourage them to stay in their own homes as long as possible by providing them groundskeeping services for their yard if they indeed have a yard, or housekeeping services--preparation of meals, laundry services, those kinds of things. Is there a program like that in Germany?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

No. We have a common program for all people in our society that is relatively new. We've had it for five years. This is the nursing and insurance plan that, under law, every male in Germany has to have. This insurance covers, for example, things he needs help with, such as those you've mentioned. That's why we have that insurance. But there's nothing extra for soldiers.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

What would the budget be? I know they're not called veterans, but for the soldiers who leave the military and have this care, is there a certain department? And what is the budget of that department? Do you know?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

No, sir. I have to check this out, but I will come back to you with that number, and I will provide you those data, sir.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer.

Now we go to the Conservative Party of Canada, and Mrs. Hinton, for seven minutes.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you very much for coming today.

One of the things you said was that the German legislature takes care of veterans. I believe I heard you say that. Are you talking about just in general, and do you use the ombudsman when there's a serious issue for veterans, since there doesn't seem to be a veterans affairs department? Is that correct?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Ma'am, this is correct, yes. We don't have a veterans affairs department. We have only, as I mentioned before, a department within the military service that looks after the reservists' affairs. When something happens to those soldiers...for example, if a father dies and he is a conscript and has served between two and 20 years, his wife gets a widow pension of 60% of his last income, and the orphan pension to the kids is 30%. So in total, the family is fully covered as long as necessary for the survival of the kids and the family in total. This money will be reduced, for example, if the wife remarries.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

It was interesting also to hear that you don't have any sort of VIP program, and if I heard you correctly, you said that it's a matter of being self-insured. So if a person is looking for care in their older years....

In your country, everybody serves. You were saying that it's mandatory. We don't do that here, so I suppose maybe the difference in approach would be that when you have a country in which every single citizen serves, you wouldn't put programs in place for a specific group of people who serve, as is the case in Canada. So it's kind of hard to compare. You're basically talking about the defence side of things more than the veterans side of things, because in your country there isn't a veterans program.

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

There is no program that is comparable to the Canadian program, but let me give you some examples. An example is health insurance. I said before that the family's health costs are paid up to 80%; for the remaining 20%, I have to pay for private insurance for my family from my salary. Also, for as long as I live, as a professional I will receive from the forces 80% coverage of my costs after my retirement until I die. The rest I have to pay from my private insurance program.

Costs for soldiers who are leaving the forces--for example, after 12 years of service as conscripts on time--are also covered up to 80%, but after they have left the forces, they must pay the money for the health insurance by themselves from their salaries.

Health insurance in Germany is mandatory for everybody. This money is directly taken away from the monthly salary that the boss is paying to his employees. Afterwards they are covered. The longer you are with a health insurance company, the lower the amount of money you have to pay in as a monthly rate. That is the reason our forces pay retroactively for the time he serves in the forces--for example, 12 years. The German forces pay those 12 years in advance for this guy, so that he is insured in the same way as he would be if he had started with mandatory health insurance, for example, at 18 years of age. He gets the same rates then.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I can come back to that, but you mentioned something else. My interpretation was that a regular or career soldier serves somewhere between two and 20 years, and that's when you get the family health costs paid at 80%. Then, after service, you do the education and the training, and it's 75% of the salary and the costs of the training.

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Yes.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

We have a program that does that too. When a soldier leaves the service, we pay for retraining, and if the soldier is not in a position to be retrained, we will train the spouse. Do you have a similar system, or is it the soldier or nobody?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

No, ma'am, we don't have a similar system. After he has retired, he can get up to five years--75%--of his last income. That depends on how long the education lasts, at least. All the education will be paid in full, but for sure up to only a certain amount, which cannot be something extraordinary. It has to be a normal education that belongs to our system.

In the case of a soldier who is no longer trainable or in a case of the type you mentioned before, ma'am, I am sorry, but we don't train the spouses. Then he is dependent on the social assistance in our country.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

The last thing you mentioned was one of the things that stuck in my mind. You said that when people serve their country, their jobs are safe and secure, so that when they do come back, their jobs are waiting for them. We just did that last year. I think it's important that if you're going to serve your country as a reservist, you shouldn't have to worry about having a job when you come back, so it's nice to see that parallel.

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

This is the law in Germany, because we have the conscript army. Nobody can, for example, hire a guy, send him to the reservists, and then kick him out. That is not allowed; it is regulated by law.

Also, he must be taken over for at least one year. His job is secure. In the case that the firm he has worked for breaks down, we will also see that he gets an additional job to suit his qualifications. Therefore, we have a special service in our forces to help those guys.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you very much. My time is up.