Veterans Affairs Committee on June 5th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

That's why we're doing the study.

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

I think you're doing your citizens well, very well, and I say this as a neutral observer. You have an outstanding CDS, chief of defence forces. I had the chance to watch two Canadian funerals and to see your Highway of Heroes. This is one of the things we could learn from Germany.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

We are now over time. Now we are going to go to M. Perron avec le Bloc québécois pour cinq minutes.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Even if we are smiling, that does not mean that we are not serious, my dear friend.

I am now addressing the military man rather than the veteran. I know that our young soldiers, when they are joining the armed forces, receive some training on the nefarious effects on alcohol abuse, drug use and sexual harassment. We are just beginning to include in their training some information on the post-traumatic stress and the nefarious effects it can have. For example, before the last deployment of the Royal 22^e Régiment from Quebec City in Afghanistan, soldiers had only a two and a half hour course.

Do you have the same system?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

I do not know your system very well, but what I do know is that every one of our soldiers who is going on mission will run through pre-training on the points you mentioned, like alcoholism, drug prevention, and sexual harassment. We have a little bit of a different understanding compared with what your society is used to in terms of alcoholism, drug prevention, and sexual harassment. We drink a bit more, we have a bit more drugs, and we have a little bit more sex.... I'm just kidding on this point.

[An hon. member]

Can I move there?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

I'm sorry for that joke, but we are a bit more open-minded. So, for example, we have a policy that we can drink on missions and can smoke on missions. We do not have as many places as you have where it is forbidden to smoke; we are a bit open-minded and can still smoke in our pubs. We allow couples, if they are on mission together, to have areas where they can feel free, as I like to say.

But that doesn't mean we are not strict when there is drug abuse, alcohol abuse, or sexual harassment. We would directly fire those guys on those points, and bring them in front of both a civil court and a military court. We punish soldiers doubly--in front of a military court and, afterwards, also in front of a civil court. That means that the more freedom we have on the one side, the more abuse is punished on the other hand. Our soldiers go through six months of pre-training, where these things are covered in several hours, not so much in terms of prevention but to make it clear to the soldiers what is going to be done to them if they fail on this.

We have had cases, and I will talk of three examples during my tour. I had a guy who was an alcoholic. He was a reservist, and we found out he was alcoholic during his tour. You always have to bear in mind that these guys are carrying weapons with them or driving a tank or something else, so that when you find this out, you have to take measures, including some preventative ones that must work. In Afghanistan, it's the easiest thing to buy drugs on every corner—you can do this—and we had guys who started to deal drugs in my compound, in my area. I had to fire 12 guys because of this drug abuse. And I had a case of a soldier who forced a woman, with his weapon in his hands, to do him some favours, as I call them. You cannot ever say, even if you do some prevention against these things, that cases like this do not happen. They also happen in our forces.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I am talking about giving young soldiers, new recruits some information on the post-traumatic stress syndrome and the symptoms that they should be watching for during a mission.

I believe that Germany has a population of some 60 million people. Is that correct?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

To answer your first question, sir, we have 82 million people in Germany.

As to the second question, we do PTSD training to recognize the basic symptoms, and we also have a so-called buddy program. We say that everybody has to choose a buddy. The commander also needs a buddy, just as the soldiers below do. They are trained to be the backups always for the other soldier, to help them. From time to time, soldiers need to cry, need help, and need to speak and get their sorrows out, and all of those things. That is why we have this so-called buddy program.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

It's still on since the 1915 war.

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Yes, that's right, sir.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

The buddy system in Germany's army.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you very much.

Now we're on to the Liberal Party of Canada, and Mr. Valley, for five minutes.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

You commented about when they have problems with either drugs or alcohol and they're driving a tank or carrying a gun. I just came back from Afghanistan. It was quite unique, because you can't get a cup of coffee there, you can't get an airplane, unless you have a gun. So they're very strict about making sure you have them.

Here is just a quick question. In the bureaucracies we build in Canada—and I assume it's the same in Germany—no matter what you build, there are always gaps and there are always cracks, and people fall through them, because that's human nature; you know, we're weak. You've explained your system very well, as well as we can understand a system that we hadn't heard about before. What do you see as one of the weaknesses that your system lets what I call veterans, but I understand the difference...? Is there a main problem you've seen over your years of service, where something could be done better?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Absolutely, sir. We have the issue that we cut off their relations after they lose their status as a reservist. I think this is one of the biggest disadvantages we have in our system. There is no looking after for them, even if you do it on a voluntary basis with those guys and keep them in the circle of your former reservist soldiers. I think this is one of the biggest disadvantages we have in our system.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Yes. It's similar for us here. There's such a structured family in the military, and all of a sudden they're by themselves and they're gone off to different areas. We have that here.

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

We don't have that. There is no similar structure.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

That's all the questions I have.

Thank you very much. You've been very informative.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you, Mr. Valley.

Now I think we just have Mr. Sweet, and Monsieur Perron wishes to make some sort of quick comment.

Monsieur Perron.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Sweet, perhaps I will be playing the role of chair of this committee, but I would like to recommend a visit to Sainte-Anne Hospital in the Montreal area. This hospital is specializing in cases of post-traumatic stress syndrome and the personnel is working hand in hand with Americans. Canadians have nothing to fear in this regard: they are at the forefront of the study of post-traumatic stress problems. If you had more time, you could visit that hospital to see how they are treating people suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome. I could try to arrange an appointment for you.

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

I'd like to thank you very much for this great offer. Sir, I will come back to this, and if you don't mind, I would invite one of the highest-ranking specialists we have in Germany to come over to Canada. If you allow it, he can accompany me on this, so we have a chance to do this.

Thank you very much for this great offer and invitation. I will come back to this for sure, sir.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I am sure that this committee will facilitate your visit to Sainte-Anne Hospital.

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Thank you very much, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

We have Mr. Stoffer and Mr. Sweet. Mr. Sweet has priority because he got dibs in first.