Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 9th, 2009

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Okay. Yes, I understand.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Secondly, the point of order is a piece of debate. The minister was answering your questions.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Okay. I'll get back to it.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

If you have any more detail, Minister, to refer to those questions and to answer, then go ahead. If not, I'll go to the next one.

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

The only thing I want to add, Mr. Chair, is that I ask every member here, regardless of what side of the House they're on, to examine their voting record in terms of support of our men and women in uniform and our veterans. It's dismal. It's one they should be ashamed of.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Kerr.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was kind of enjoying that engagement a little bit. I guess I got distracted.

First, I do want to say that it certainly is an honour and a pleasure to be the parliamentary secretary. It's quite a learning curve. Certainly, unless you're a part of it, you don't realize just how much goes into it and how many people are served and supported by Parliament and certainly by the department. I'm delighted to be there.

I'd also think you might see that the member from Sackville may even go our way in the last vote. He still has that opportunity. I know his interest is there, for sure.

I just want to change it back a bit. I noticed that this topic came up twice. I've had a chance to do the research on it and it's quite an amazing thing. It's the fact of Ste. Anne's Hospital.

I was wondering if perhaps what we're looking at--and you covered quite a bit of it when you gave your first answer, Minister--is the fact that it is providing that kind of unique service, not just for the obvious returning vets and those who need it immediately. There are a lot of other elements.

I was wondering, Minister Thompson, if you want to expand a bit on the kinds of activities going forward that you see taking place at Ste. Anne's. I'm hoping we'll all go there to visit sometime before the year's out and see it at first hand. From what I know of it, and I haven't been there, it's quite an incredible initiative. Perhaps a bit more on what its intent is might be helpful at this time.

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Greg.

I want to clarify one thing in Mr. Stoffer's remarks. This isn't personal--it's this thing we go back and forth on. I don't question his commitment to veterans as an individual, because he does remarkable things with the veterans community in his home town. I'll admit that anywhere--and I've been to some of those events. But I'll just tell you that the rubber never hits the road in his party. He belongs to a party that has a dismal record on support of our veterans and our men and women in uniform, so that's the point I'm making. I don't question his personal commitment for a minute; I'm just questioning where his party is going on these issues. One of these days I want to see him break party ranks and stand up and support our men and women in the House of Commons with his vote.

Now I'm going to move on to the other one. Ste. Anne's is on the cutting edge with some of the programs they've developed, and they're ongoing. They have an impact on our national delivery of these programs, because the expertise really does rest down there at Ste. Anne's. It's sort of the crown jewel of our operation, when it comes to operational stress injury and post-traumatic stress disorder, in the work they're doing. That work is ongoing and the research is ongoing. We're very proud of what they're doing. In fact, we were down there less than a month ago, and I believe they will be up and running with the residential treatment facility in November. Is that right, Suzanne? Then families can actually be there on site while the family member is receiving treatment. We're looking forward to that, because the veterans communities have asked for that and it's something we're delivering on.

One of the things we should do--I think the committee did it in the last Parliament--is visit Ste. Anne's. It would be worthwhile for the committee to go down to hear from some of the professionals on the ground, because they truly are committed to what they're doing and have done a tremendous job. We can be very proud of them.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much.

I'll share the rest of my time with Rob Clarke, if that's okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Clarke, you have almost three minutes.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I'd like to congratulate the chair for winning the nomination for the seat, and thank the minister for attending here this afternoon.

I am a veteran of the RCMP. I served in the RCMP for 18 years before I retired due to my political aspirations. I participated in a program for Veterans Affairs with great interest, so I know how much the forces need the support of this committee.

First, how many clients participate in this program--a general number overall--from the military and the RCMP?

Second, when making changes to the programs, what do we do with regard to consultation sessions, what groups meet, and how often do these consultations take place?

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Rob.

Through the client list here, I do have specific numbers for you, and we can break them down. We have 219,000 clients. That's including the RCMP disability pension awards. We have 176,000 disability pension awards. About another 8,000 would be the RCMP's share of that caseload, if you will. As well, 103,000 survivors receive the VIP program. So that's a snapshot of our veterans population.

With regard to the average age of a new force veteran coming into the system, I always say it's the age of 34, but it could be 36. The average age of a World War II veteran now is up to 85, soon to be 86. Of course, that was one of the reasons we redesigned some of our programs when we went to the new Veterans Charter, which was introduced by the Liberal government, passed by the previous government, and implemented by ours. That's one of the reasons we moved to that.

In terms of the programs offered, Rob, it's wide and it's varied. Again, I do know that a lot of the emphasis on the new veterans coming into the system very much is on the post-traumatic stress disorder. Those numbers really have escalated in the last number of years. I think Veterans Affairs has responded well to it. We do have a lot of those peer support groups around the country where our veterans can get in and share thoughts, and families can get together.

A lot of that goes on both on and off the bases. Many of our clinics are walk-in. The stigma of walking into a doctor's office or a psychiatrist's office doesn't exist, because they're off-base and many of them are housed in the most unusual places. We're making every effort we can so that when a veteran is suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, they can receive that type of treatment in the kind of privacy that they deserve, and eliminate the kind of difficulties that often have been created in the past as a result of receiving that treatment.

I often say that in our society as a whole, anyone who suffers from mental illness suffers in silence. I think we've made great gains, and DND has as well, in bringing the reality out in the public eye. It's more accepted now than it was in the past. People actually seek treatment. There's more of a recognition by the government that we can do more, and we will continue to do more and closely monitor what's going on.

When you compare the numbers in some of the other jurisdictions around the world with the numbers in Canada, you can see that we are blessed with a pretty healthy group of men and women in uniform. I do know that we were talking earlier today about suicide rates in the U.S. military. It's an extremely high number, a frighteningly high number. Our number in the Canadian military, from the statistics that I've received anyway, indicates that suicide within the Canadian military, in the veterans group as a whole--that larger military family, I might say, as a better way of putting it--is actually less than the Canadian average.

I think this is as a result of a number of things that we're doing, and just the quality of the men and women who put on the Canadian uniform. I'd like to believe that some of it is the ongoing work that Veterans Affairs has done with our client base, not to mention National Defence itself.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Minister.

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, but I should just add here, if you don't mind, that one of the things that DND is doing--and Peter would probably be aware of this more than some of us because of where he lives--is retaining many of its soldiers. If you had an injury or a disability where you're out of the military immediately, they're really emphasizing training and retraining to utilize the talent that they have. I think that feeling of being wanted and needed and the fact that I was injured on the job or wounded on the job doesn't mean I'm no longer a soldier.

General Hillier went to great lengths to make that change. I think it's been implemented well. I think there's been a lot of positive feedback within the military of the feeling that you're not just another soldier, you're important to us and we want to be there for you, not just for the short haul but the long haul. It's made a big difference on the outlook of many of our men and women in uniform.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Clarke.

That ends our first round. Because of the fullness and robustness of the answers, we've consumed quite a bit of time, so we'll move right on to the second round now of five minutes.

Madam Guarnieri.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me add my congratulations to your new position. I know it's been my experience that this committee works diligently to enhance veterans' benefits. Congratulations.

I'd like to pick up on a point that my erudite friend here, Monsieur André, raised earlier. Minister, the government has committed to maintaining the Kandahar mission to 2011. With the current rate of losses, we can expect to conclude this mission with a very substantial number of veterans suffering continuing physical injuries and operational stress injuries.

What does your department project in terms of the total number of disability claims arising from the Kandahar mission by 2011? Where are there capacity shortfalls in terms of serving their needs?

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Albina, that's one where, again, looking at what we have done in our OSI clinics, the new Veterans Charter really speaks to that issue. It was on your watch that it was introduced and passed on the floor of the House of Commons. I don't think there's any question in the minds of any of us that it was the right thing to do. We were blessed to be here in the government to implement it.

It was set up in such a way to respond to that on an ongoing basis. In my opening remarks I talked about the millions of dollars that we put in to respond to the needs of the new veterans coming into the system. It was a conscious decision made by the government at the time, carried on by us. We're living in a different world today from what existed post-World War II.

Again, when you take a look at the $1.6 billion that we budgeted over and above the last budget that you had, a lot of that is going to the very need we've identified, to those new veterans coming into the system, Albina. I think we've responded well to that need.

In terms of the implementation of the charter--and if we want to get into the numbers, we have them available here--basically, our projections and the projections of the previous government were pretty well right on in terms of what we were expecting to see in these more difficult missions, whether it's Afghanistan or some other place.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

The difference being, though, when I was a minister, we hadn't had a single casualty yet. So I guess my question really goes towards capacity and long-term planning. Obviously, serving soldiers want to be assured that the capacity is there to provide them with the care that they need, despite massive increases in casualties over the last three years.

I wonder if the minister has developed any relationships with the United States providers to deliver prompt care or treatment to Canadian veterans if capacity north of the border becomes stretched. In other words, are there contingencies if demand in the coming years accelerates beyond capacity?

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Well, one of the biggest differences between our system and the American system is that in the American system they rely on veterans hospitals to deliver the health care, while in our system we depend on the universal health care system to deliver most of the services—not all of the services—to our veteran clients. So there's a fundamental difference between how they deliver their service and how we deliver ours.

We committed ourselves to the Afghan mission in 2002. I don't know the breakdown off the top of my head. You're saying that most, if not all, of the casualties are a result of the last three years. I'm not sure if that statistic is correct or not; it very well could be correct. But the truth is that we have responded, I think, very positively to the number of men and women and their families who need our support. And, again, we had unanimous support in the House of Commons for the changes we brought about.

I think the numbers are what we pretty well predicted they would be. Obviously, as we go forward into 2011...we never know how the world is going to unfold as we approach that date, but Veterans Affairs is prepared. The client base has been pretty predictable, and we put the financial resources into the department to deal with it.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

The question is, will there be additional contingencies, if necessary?

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

We'll do whatever it takes, Albina, to be there for our men and women in uniform. If, for some reason, we need more financial resources to do the job we're expected to do for our men and women in uniform, I could sit here and tell you that we'll have those dollars to do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Madam Guarnieri.

Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to congratulate you on your election as chair. I know people know you'll do a great job, as will I.

I'd like to thank Minister Thompson for the hard work he's done in supporting the veterans in his time as the Minister of Veterans Affairs. In particular, the veterans independence program and it's expansion I know was a very popular and well-appreciated program in my riding, and many people throughout the legions in my riding surely appreciate that.

I would like to point out that Minister Thompson is also a graduate of St. Thomas University. A cousin of mine was a scholarship athlete out there and played on the hockey team, so I see we have one thing in common.

The question I have for Minister Thompson is this. As a young person, I'm interested in what initiatives you are taking or the department is taking to engage youth in activities of remembrance.

I know in our riding I was really amazed at the cenotaph presentation on Remembrance Day, at the large numbers, and members of the Legion did comment on how there's been an upsurge in response and in support of Remembrance Day. I was just curious how the department and yourself are working to have youth included in this initiative.

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Ben, and congratulations on your appointment to the committee.

That is a big part of what we do. In fact, I've talked about the sort of spike in interest in Remembrance Day. More people are showing up. I think there are a number of reasons for it. I guess it's because we know that our men and women are on tough missions in Afghanistan and in other troubled parts of the world. I think we have an understanding of how troubled the world really is and of how we depend on these people for the very freedoms we have.

I think some of that might flow naturally because of the kind of world we're living in today. In terms of Veterans Affairs, I think we work more closely with schools today. The information we provide to schools and teachers to use in the classroom I think speaks well of what we do with our young people. Of course, when we go on some of these pilgrimages, as we often refer to them, overseas, and do commemorative events overseas, we always make sure that a number of school children are part of it.

I don't want to get his name wrong, but we have one teacher in the Ontario region who does just incredible work. I think the deputy has his name at hand. I know that his first name is David.... David Robinson is an example. There was Vimy Ridge. Truly thousands of young people, young Canadians, went to Vimy Ridge to take part in that commemorative event, and he's doing an event in Italy this year, and there is more to come.

I think it's a combination of many different things, but a lot of it is just getting educational materials to the schools. Years ago I was a school teacher, and the amount of information that would flow to the schools from Veterans Affairs was almost non-existent. I know that if I say that I'll probably be in trouble with the previous ministers from back a generation or two.

We distribute 20,000 Veterans Week information packages to schools across the country, so it's pretty significant. We have a number of different projects we fund, as well, in the schools. The Dominion Institute, as one of the members, Peter, mentioned, does tremendous work across the country. In fact, one of the best events I've ever been to with the Dominion Institute, which the Prime Minister attended, was just before Christmas, when they had an event with some of the young people in the schools in Saint John, New Brunswick.

That is some of what we do. I guess we can always say that we could do more, but it sure is gratifying when you go to these small communities on Remembrance Day and see the kinds of people showing up. I think the member of Parliament for Saint John, Rodney Weston, told me that something like 8,000 people in Saint John, New Brunswick, a city of fewer than 100,000 people, showed up at Harbour Station for their November 11 ceremony. They're just unbelievable numbers, exceeding some of those in our larger cities. I think it's a clear indication that reaching out to the schools makes a difference. I think we can be proud of what we're doing in that regard.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Lobb, that was the expiration of your time.

Now we'll go to Monsieur Gaudet.