Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 10th, 2009

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Yes, but it all leads to that, and I think we have to stand by the determination of a previous decision of government and say there are always going to be people who are not satisfied with decisions of their elected representatives, but leadership is about standing by those decisions because they're sound, principled decisions.

If we go to an inquiry we are basically saying that there was fault in those previous decisions, and I totally disagree with that.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Okay. Let me just address the committee as a whole for a moment.

We have three more speakers on the speakers list. It is 10:52. There is another committee coming in at eleven, and we do have a couple of witnesses, so basically we need to finish this debate. We need to apologize to these witnesses, and you need to give me ten seconds to say Merry Christmas to you.

I guess what I'm asking is whether everybody's okay with the fact that we're going to have to suspend the debate on this after these three more interventions.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Call the vote. It seems like we're not getting to the topic.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I have no authority to call the vote as long as there are people who want to speak to the issue.

Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I have to tell you again, we're putting the cart before the horse on this. The Widows on a Warpath were here at our last meeting and presented a very heartfelt description of their life and how certain things have impacted their life, and I think we all can appreciate that.

With the motion in front of us, I go back to two documents that I have read and I'm sure members of this committee have read. One is Dr. Furlong's report that he put forward. And I would hope that the members who are going to vote on this motion have read that and have understood what he put into that report. Perhaps before this motion is voted on, we'd like to have him come before the committee and explain his journey in doing his research. It goes back at least 40 years and examines everything from the fish habitat in the surrounding areas, right through to how the chemicals react into the fatty content of one's body. He did a complete study and it took numerous years. Perhaps we'd like him to come before the committee, for us to hear some detailed, scientific facts. We heard testimony in our last meeting that was far from scientific, in my humble opinion.

We may also want to bring forth Inka Milewski, who did a study on behalf of the Conservation Council of New Brunswick. Inka, it is my understanding, did a non-partisan report. She was a former NDP candidate in the province of New Brunswick. I think the committee would find her findings surprising, possibly, and informative. They would want to bring her forward before voting on this motion so they would have all the facts before putting forth a motion that asks for a public judicial inquiry.

Think of the costs involved in a judicial inquiry alone, before the committee has perhaps some relevant facts brought before them. We may have all done our own little studies and our own little research and have come to our conclusions, which may in fact all point to what this motion indicates. But I don't think it is proper and prudent that this committee votes for this motion until we've at least heard some scientific evidence from some experts who have studied the specifics around New Brunswick, the specifics around Gagetown. The Widows on a Warpath certainly brought heartfelt appreciation of their lives, but did not represent the scientific community or indicate that they've hired any independent scientist to study particular issues.

I think the committee should at least explore this before we go to the costs of a full public judicial inquiry. Their testimony and their information may very well lead us down that path, but I certainly think that I would have a hard time, as someone who represents taxpayers who work hard for their money, who pay taxes and expect their members of Parliament to be fiscally prudent, to go down this path without all the facts in front of us, or at least some facts in front of us on which we can make a good decision. I think that's why we're all here, to represent Canadians. Specifically, this motion recognizes a certain community within Canada. I certainly do not feel that we should vote for this motion until we have some witnesses in front of us who have some scientific facts behind them, who have studied the issue, to give us guidance on why we should or should not go forward with this--possibly, also, as Mr. Kerr said, from the minister himself or someone within the department. On this motion, to me, there's too much without knowing enough at this time.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Ladies and gentlemen, there are two minutes left. Another committee is waiting outside the door to come in. I have three more people on the speakers list. I think it would be dignified if we at least ask the witnesses to come in and apologize to them because we've been in a business meeting that was extended. I hope that's acceptable to you before we gavel this meeting out so that we can allow the other committee to come in the room.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

I have a point of order. We have managed to talk out the issue without resolving anything. I would suggest that this motion should be the first order of business at our next meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Could we have the witnesses come in so that we can make an official apology?

I think you've witnessed what's gone on here, so I don't have to give you a lot of explanation. We've had some passionate debate. I wanted to apologize to you on behalf of the committee. It wasn't our intention not to hear your testimony today, and I hope in spite of that you'll have a merry Christmas.

To all the members, Merry Christmas, Joyeux Noël, Bonne année, Happy New Year. As we leave this place, we might all do well to turn our minds to things of the spirit and to assess once again, during this Christmas interval, our efforts to make Canada a better nation.

The meeting is adjourned.