Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 16th, 2010

[Raymond Lalonde]

At this time there's not enough of a body of evidence to support that it is effective.

[Janice Burke]

I would emphasize as well that most people would conclude that working with animals has certainly worked in other organizations—I don't know if they've had it in Correctional Services—where there's been supervision and a different type of program. We're certainly looking at it, not necessarily from a clinical perspective but maybe to assist veterans to better reintegrate into their communities and to provide better support. So we are looking at that component of it.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Certainly in the research I've looked at, they pretty well go right down the checklist of issues you mentioned: anxiety, depression, anger, and so on.

So the last question I'll ask, whether we're talking about equine-assisted therapy or therapy using other animals, such as dogs, is what your timeline is. Are we talking about a year, five years, ten years? If the research is heading in the right direction—and it looks as though it is—are you looking at pilot projects?

[Janice Burke]

We're actually considering looking at a number of things, up to and including pilot projects. Because our programs have to be evidence-based in terms of what we provide to our veterans, we need to establish that there are going to be benefits. So we're continuing to look at that. We did the research on it from a clinical perspective. That was completed by the National Centre for Operational Stress Injuries. Now we're looking at it from a different perspective, more from the perspective of integration into community life.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay.

I'll finish off with a quick question.

I've spoken with a few area councillors, and I think they really try hard to do the best job they can. If there is an issue, from their perspective, what abilities do they have to communicate that issue with the bureaucracy within Veterans Affairs to get the issue dealt with?

[Janice Burke]

Well, certainly if there are client issues.... Are you referring to process issues or policy issues?

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

It would be to do with the inability to deliver the services they feel were necessary for the veteran. What abilities do they have to reach above and say, “Hey, this person has an issue. We aren't delivering the services to them. We have to intervene and help this person”? What's out there?

[Janice Burke]

We have very good networks, on the service delivery side, for staff to provide their feedback on things that aren't working. This year we're actually embarking upon considerably reducing complexity around our policies and our processes, because of what veterans have said but also because of what staff have been telling us. Hopefully, you'll start to see some improvements there, for example, even in the disability process, in which we aim to reduce turnaround times by 30% by April.

We're also looking at all of our policies that may have added complexity, for which we may have asked for more information than was even required to make a decision. We're delegating more decision-making down to front-line staff. So I think from that perspective, work is under way. We've certainly heard loud and clear what veterans want, and certainly, from a front-line perspective, we have received feedback regarding what processes and policies could be improved.

[Dr. Tina Pranger]

And on an individual basis, an area councillor—they're now called case managers—can talk to their managers, to their client service team managers. And if something can't be resolved, then they will bring it to their district directors. And if it can't be resolved there, then it goes to the regional office. So there is a chain of command, so to speak, along which they can take their concerns and have them addressed.

[Raymond Lalonde]

I would also add that the minister and the deputy minister have invited the staff to write them directly. Also, on the Internet there's a place for staff to share directly with senior management any initiatives they think we should put in place.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Mayes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think there are a lot of positive things the department is doing, and obviously you have some positive outcomes.

One of the things I was wondering about is the timeline for rehabilitation. From the time a client comes in, do you have an average timeline? And what percentage of your clients do you feel are actually successful in being rehabilitated and in regaining that mental wellness?

[Janice Burke]

While I'm obviously not the expert in the rehabilitation program, I certainly have a tremendous interest in it. Over 50% of the veterans in that program have a service-related disability for a psychiatric condition. Also, I believe it's up to over 70% of the veterans in the rehabilitation program who have mental health needs.

As I said earlier, the veterans who are in the program today have very complex needs. Over one-third, and it may in fact be more than that, were released from service more than five years ago. I think the statistic in one of the samples is that one-third were basically within one year of release and the other one-third were within five years.

We're finding that the people coming into the program with one need--there's a barrier to their vocational needs or obtaining employment--can go through the program much quicker than the people who are coming in with very complex physical and mental needs. As you know, we have to focus on stabilizing, getting their medical and psycho-social needs met, before we can even begin to look at employment possibilities. We are finding that the people who have come into the program more than five years from release are taking longer to go through the program--in fact, more than 24 months.

I think the last statistic--and if it's not correct, I'll certainly ensure that you have the right number--is around 690 who have completed the program since it started. As you can see, looking at a program of close to 4,000, we have a number of people who are benefiting. But they are very complex cases because of the mental health, the chronic pain, and the addictions we're seeing.

We're there for the veterans for as long as needed. If they are successful, they can move into employment. If they can't, we have a safety net for them in terms of ensuring their income. If they do in fact get employment....The process is not linear for people who have mental health conditions. There are often setbacks.

The real benefit of the new Veterans Charter programs is they can come back into the programs any time that's required. That is happening, as well. We have some people who have been out of the program and they are coming back in. It's a safety net. It will be there for every veteran when it's needed and for as long as it's needed.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

You've stated that the earlier they enter the program the quicker the rehabilitation and identifying of some of the issues. Is there anyone in the department, or is there any assistance, to make sure veterans who need that help are encouraged to seek it as quickly as possible so you can get started on the rehabilitation?

[Janice Burke]

We've been very fortunate since we started these transition interviews that with the new Veterans Charter we can now move them into these kinds of programs.

As you indicated, there is this group previous to the new Veterans Charter who have not had the benefit of the programs. We are focusing on doing more outreach, working with communities--I talked about that earlier--with the Canadian Mental Health Association and with the Royal Canadian Legion's network to get more information on the ground, at the grassroots level, for the veterans we know are there and their families, so they can get this support as soon as possible.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

The new Veterans Charter is not perfect, but it has improved everything in the last four years, since its existence. Would you say that is a good observation?

[Janice Burke]

Yes, absolutely.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Ms. Zarac, please.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon. Thank you for being here today and for giving us so much information. You are our first witnesses, and we are looking for information.

Wanting to be better informed, I went on the Internet this week and, Mr. Lalonde, I saw that you had attended a symposium on psychological trauma among veterans in 2007. That wasn't so long ago. Unfortunately, there wasn't a detailed report, just press releases. I was wondering whether recommendations were presented at the symposium. Were any recommendations made following the symposium?

[Raymond Lalonde]

In fact I only attended it. The symposium was organized by my team, but the purpose of the meeting was not to make recommendations. The symposium was somewhat like the one that was held in November, which we organized in partnership with the International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies. That is a symposium attended by scientists, researchers and clinicians in the field. They present their research, their approaches, and so on.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

These are presentations; there were no conclusions.

[Raymond Lalonde]

These are presentations. There were no conclusions or recommendations as such.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

If I'm looking for recommendations, I won't find any in your report.

[Raymond Lalonde]

You won't find any.