Veterans Affairs Committee on March 23rd, 2010

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

It's good to hear it.

[Doug Chislett]

Beyond what Colonel Blais has said, from our side of the house, when we're dealing with the clients--I've dealt with clients pre the existence of the JPSU and post the existence--we see a dramatic difference. When we're looking at centres like Edmonton or Halifax, where there are JPSUs, the process is extremely simple. We get connected with them. We don't have to hunt them down. We're able to make a good connection. When you're in some of the more remote areas, it can be much more of a challenge, and we're seeing that change.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Rural is a challenge. We've talked about that at different times. That is a challenge, for sure.

[BGen D.C. Kettle]

As members of Parliament, you will hear from your constituents from time to time. You'll hear their frustrations. Of course, the process can always be improved.

One thing you must bear in mind is all these people are going through a grief process. Anger is part of the grief process. Anger anathematizes feelings they'd rather not deal with, and that often comes out in terms of frustration. It doesn't always mean the process is flawed.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Yes. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much.

Now on to Madam Sgro for five minutes.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Thank you very much. Welcome this morning. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us as we move on dealing with some really important issues, certainly for all of us and all of Canada.

Brigadier-General Kettle, in response to the issue of suicide, you mentioned that the men and women now are properly led. Between 35 and 40 men have committed suicide in Afghanistan; those are the current numbers we're aware of. That doesn't cover off people we know, former members who are unfortunately committing suicide as a result of their experience in the theatre in Afghanistan.

Can you tell me and the committee briefly, what happens when, as a result of the experience on a particular day when they've lost several of our men and so on, the group comes back to the particular camp? How are they helped to get over what they've just experienced and seen at that moment?

[BGen D.C. Kettle]

Whenever troops are engaged in combat, following that episode they are debriefed in a proper debriefing session. That can either be handled by a mental health specialist who is available or by a chaplain.

I just want to take a step backwards. Any suicide is unacceptable. If you want to take a look at the suicide rate south of the border right now, which is spiking, we're not anywhere near their ballpark. The reason we're not in their ballpark is that our deployments are six months long. Soldiers, sailors, and air personnel know going in exactly when they're going to return. Our American friends do not have that benefit. We can see light at the end of the tunnel; our American friends cannot. I think we're doing a very good job of addressing the issue of suicides within the Canadian Forces to keep them at the levels they're currently at.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

What else could be done?

[BGen D.C. Kettle]

What else could be done?

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

What else can we all be doing?

[BGen D.C. Kettle]

We can continue the process of educating our troops' peers so that they know when people are displaying signs: they're withdrawn; there have been character changes. If your peers are watching you, if the chain of command is watching you, and they are sensitive to the symptoms that at least can be acknowledged as potential signs that you are in trouble, and you get the care you require, we can start to reduce some of the suicides we're presently having. You can never reduce them entirely, because some suicides just happen. No matter what you do, no matter what you have in place, they will take place.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Following deployment of an individual and a return to the base, what kind of follow-up happens to that individual who's just returned from Afghanistan? I'm not talking about the first two weeks. I'm talking about three months later. Is anyone at the three-month point trying to reach out to an individual who seems to be a bit withdrawn?

[BGen D.C. Kettle]

I can't tell you the exact month. Within three or four months, they are once again debriefed, every single one of them, by a social worker. Of course, whether they get the help they require very much depends on how honest they are with the therapist. We attempt to at least give them the opportunity to express to us that they're having struggles. Also, they're within a unit, and their units are sensitive to the fact that they've returned from deployment. Their behaviour is being watched for signs that they're having struggles or difficulties. The help is always offered to them.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Bouchard, talking a little bit about the offsets and so on, I know you talked about how much money it would take to make some of the changes. Are there any discussions ongoing? Recognizing the court issue is not the point, are there any discussions going on about changing the way the current system is working for the future?

[André Bouchard]

Currently there is nothing in the works to change the policy to remove the reductions.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

You mean the bridging. There is nothing currently in the bridging to change that.

[André Bouchard]

That's correct.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

On the lump sum payment issue, you mentioned, or maybe it was Colonel Blais, that you explain everything before agreeing to this lump sum payment. We've heard from so many people that they receive $150,000, or whatever, when they are trying to recover, possibly, from their own injuries, and they go off and spend it. Are there any serious discussions about changing the lump sum payment and putting it into a pension or about eliminating the opportunity for the lump sum payment?

[André Bouchard]

This is a Veterans Affairs Canada issue that I cannot answer. I don't know if my colleague is aware of any changes coming to the charter on this one.

[Col Gerry Blais]

We've had numerous discussions with Veterans Affairs, as I mentioned when I was answering the previous question, about serious consideration being given to looking at how we can do things better for those who are more junior in rank and have very serious injuries. There are a number of options being looked at. Maybe we start with the earnings loss benefits and other things. Perhaps we look at a higher starting salary or things of that nature. There are a number of options being examined. To return to a full-fledged pension system I do not think is being considered at the moment.

[André Bouchard]

I may add that to mitigate someone receiving a lump sum amount and spending this amount, VAC offers $500 for counselling. This is something that members should be taking advantage of. I'm not sure that most members receiving this award will take the $500 and seek financial counselling or financial planning to determine the best way to handle a large lump sum amount. At SISIP, I can tell you, we have teams in place with financial planners or financial counsellors who could provide this advice to veterans who receive lump sum amounts.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard.

Thank you, Madam Sgro.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

We're into our third round. The Conservative Party has indicated that they have exhausted their questions, so we'll go directly to Mr. Stoffer for five minutes.