Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 6th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Casey.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

First of all, thanks for coming, gentlemen. I'm a proud member of Prince Edward Island, Branch No. 1.

Our focus here is on remembrance in the 21st century. It seems to me that a key to that is the health of the legions. I wonder if you could comment on the overall health of the Legion movement, of the Legion organization, and the biggest challenges you face. I realize we're taking it a bit away from commemoration, but I think the health of your organization and commemoration are very much intertwined.

[Steven Clark]

The organization realized a few years ago that the number of our members was declining. We instituted a new category of membership, which is an associate category. It is for family members in the organization. We also instituted an affiliate category in 1998. You don't have to have any association with the military as long as you subscribe to our purposes and objectives. Back in 1998, we had less than 100 members. Currently we have over 63,000 in that one category. We realized that with one-third of our members having served, there are two-thirds that have not. We're continuing to build on that area while trying to draw in those who have military service. It is a challenge for branches, but it is a challenge that the branches have met. They're developing initiatives, and we will continue to be a viable and strong force.

[Brad White]

I'd just like to add that the Legion is like any other volunteer organization right now. It's a little bit different because we're a veterans-centred organization, but any organization out in Canada in the main street today is having difficulty getting volunteers to come into it. There are too many competing activities going on. Branches in their heyday were big. They had large infrastructure. A branch that had an infrastructure supporting 2,500 members may now have only 500 members. Those are the types of transitions that the organization is starting to go through now. I'm happy to see that there are a lot organizations, not only in the Maritimes but all across the country. A lot of the branches are doing just that. They're realizing that their infrastructure is too big, and they're starting to downsize into better types of buildings that they can actually survive in for longer term.

The strength of a branch is always at the community level. They're there to support the community and the veterans in that community. That is the real strength of the organization. We're trying to give the tools to the branch now to improve their membership drives and to improve their outreach to the community so that they can actually go out in their community, tell them what they're doing, and attract members to come in.

In a large part of the country, branches are the mainstay of the local community. They are the focal point of the community. When you get into a large urban centre, sometimes that focal point tends to get diffused a little bit with other competing organizations. We're working on our strengths, on transition, and on trying to attract new members.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thanks.

Just as a direct follow-up to that, what do you see as the role of the Government of Canada? What can the Government of Canada do to help you achieve what you want to do?

[Brad White]

As you know, we're a not-for-profit organization. We're not a government agency, and I like to say that because it allows us to advocate, as we need to advocate, on behalf of veterans.

A lot of provincial and municipal organizations allow the Legion not to pay taxes. This is a big bonus for a local branch because they put back into the community quite a lot of money every year. So if they're exempt from the taxes at the municipal and provincial levels, it's a big deal for them that they don't have to pay those taxes. That way they can actually continue to fund the infrastructure in their programs. That would be one big assistance to the organization.

The next is not paying HST on the poppies and the wreaths. That's a big assistance because it allows us to put money back into programming. We're thankful that it has finally gone through, and we're able to move forward with that.

As we move forward, I would say that if we could encourage municipalities to exempt Legion branches from paying taxes, that would be a big bonus for the organization.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

Now we have Mr. Daniel, for five minutes.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much for attending this hearing. I look forward to your answers.

Clearly the demographic of all the veterans is changing. I believe we have more younger veterans than we did in the past. My question is what programs—new programs or initiatives—would you like to create in the future should you have the funding to do so?

[Brad White]

One of the best programs we have is our service bureau. These service officers across the country assist all veterans. I've heard them called post-9/11 veterans and modern-day veterans. The Americans have terminology for them. We assist all veterans. We're trying to make them aware that we have these professional service officers, who are people who have served as well. They're not government bureaucrats. They're not members of VAC. We assist these individuals in filling out their first application for pension benefits, and we help them to move through that process of benefit application into Veterans Affairs. That is one of the primary programs that we have to assist the new veterans. We're going out to the Canadian Forces and the VAC to make sure that those people are aware of that.

This program that we have, the Welcome Home initiative, is focusing on assisting those people as they make those transitions.

New or other types of programs? We are looking at ourselves internally right now to find out what programs we've had for many years that need to be transitioned forward a little bit. That's an interesting process that we're involved in right now.

Out of that, I think you'll see some other new programs, and the virtual Legion branch is one of them, where we want to have means to let these members communicate back and forth. We're looking at all our programming right now to see where we want to transition.

Members of the organization normally want to have shared experiences with other members. That's really what a Legion branch is all about--sharing those experiences and providing them with some place where they can come together and talk about their experiences.

[Steven Clark]

If I may add a quick comment, talking about the modern-day veterans or the current veterans, we find that a lot of veterans tend to be closer to their particular regiment or their particular area of service, so a regimental association is quite strong and quite important to them. The Legion realizes that, and we have established a veterans consultation group to which we invite representatives from a number of veterans organizations to talk about common issues. They don't have to be members of the Legion, but we're all there for the common purpose. We realize that their focus may be more regimental as opposed to broad, but we are still there to work for the one purpose. We've established that; it's something that we do on an annual basis, and it's quite successful.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

To change the subject a little, we have a huge number of new Canadians who have come into this country and established themselves. In my case, I'm associated with a group of Vietnamese veterans, who obviously didn't fight for a Canadian cause, but they're veterans of the Vietnamese war. Is the Legion doing any reaching out to some of those folks? We're going to have more and more new Canadians who've been through wars and who could maybe do with some help.

[Brad White]

Our principal aim is to look after Canadians who've served. Your question creates a bit of a dilemma with regard to new arrivals in Canada seeking assistance from the Legion.

We provide assistance to the Royal Commonwealth Ex-Services League, which is based out of London. As an organization, we look after all of the World War II Caribbean veterans on behalf of the Commonwealth. We actually provide them with pensions and assistance for living down in the Caribbean. We support Canadian Vietnam veterans at present. They have access to our funding for benevolence.

If other individuals become members of the organization.... Right now we don't have in our poppy trust fund—because it is a Canadian poppy trust fund—the ability to support nationals from other countries who may have served in other countries. If they have served on behalf of the Commonwealth, then we could assist them, but right now we don't have any programs that would allow that. That's definitely something that may have to be looked at in the future. We may have to look at how we transition in the future, because the military brotherhood is still the military brotherhood, one way or another. We do have allies all across the world, so that is one thing we do have to look at.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Papillon, go ahead for five minutes.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Thank you for being here.

I agree with you, if Canada's military history were more well-known, more young people and more Canadians, in general, might get involved.

Speaking of that, I was wondering whether you felt some parts of Canada's military history had been somewhat forgotten. Do you think certain pieces of history should be given more attention?

[Brad White]

My grandfather was a veteran who fought in the Battle of Dieppe. He was a commander in the raid. At the end of the war, he was taken as a prisoner of war.

Dieppe was an interesting one. Are there other battles that need to be brought forward? I think Canadians are pretty respectful of the battles we've served in as a country and that have brought us forward as a nation. Vimy Ridge was a defining moment. I don't think Vimy Ridge will ever be forgotten. April 9 has now been legislated as being Vimy Ridge Day across Canada.

I think as we move forward we not only have to be respectful of World War I and World War II battles, but we have to start looking at what happened to some of the people in the peacekeeping missions. We don't pay a lot of homage to peacekeeping at this stage in the game. Some of the areas they got into were combat in themselves. Of course, we were sending people in as unarmed observers who had no way to influence the outcome, and they saw a lot of different things. There have been a number of peacekeeping operations that, as we go down the road, I think we need to celebrate.

Our activities in Bosnia-Herzegovina, in Croatia, were also key activities. As we transitioned from peacekeeping into the coalition types of operations, we went forward with our allies. There are all sorts of commemorative activities that need to be done to look at that.

We now have all those activities we've experienced in the last ten years in Afghanistan. There's a whole range of commemoration still to come. The issue is, down the road how do you do that? Do you go on pilgrimages to those countries again? Some of those governments may not be friendly towards Canadians coming back on pilgrimages in those countries. You have to be very careful where you go.

So there's a whole range of activities that are probably available to look at for the future.

I hope that answers your question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

We're starting to squeeze a little bit here, so I'm going to go over to Mr. Albas for five minutes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the presentation today.

You mentioned earlier about how to get youth involved in some of the commemorative events. The one thing that seems to be very popular in my riding at many of the events is having, as you said, the scouts and the guides, different groups, participate in some of the Remembrance Day ceremonies--for example, in the parade and laying of wreaths. I think that's very effective because it allows them to be part of the process, and that's something to be encouraged.

Just going forward a little to more of the generation Y, what programs or initiatives has the Canadian Legion undertaken to raise awareness of remembrance activities among youth and new Canadians regarding social media?

When I ran my small business, many of my employees were in that age category and used Facebook and things like that very extensively. Speaking to my colleague's comments about historic military occasions, I'd certainly like to hear how we can reach that particular audience.

[Steven Clark]

We have ventured into social media. We started with the Legion Canadian Youth Track and Field Championships, which the Legion organizes and conducts every year. We offered real-time results on Facebook and Twitter. So whether or not parents were at the competition in Ottawa or whether they were home in whatever province they originated from, they were able to find out what the results were as they happened. It was also an opportunity or a forum for athletes and parents alike to share their thoughts on the competition. We're looking at expanding this into other programs as well, and of course remembrance is one particular one.

We do have some sensitivities we have to be aware of, particularly when it revolves around trademark issues for the poppy. We don't want to commercialize that. We don't want to put it in a position that would lessen the significance of it, but we do want to use it as a tool to promote remembrance. So these are other issues using social media that we are exploring to draw youth more into the program.

As has been mentioned, we also promote the program through youth organizations, and that will continue to be strong as well.

[Brad White]

As a quick add-on, we've been negligent on social media. We're getting there. We're starting to increase more and more. We're looking at our own internal resources as to how we're going to do that. We are a members' dues-funded organization, so we do have to answer for how we spend our money.

As we move forward it's an important issue. We have to come into what I call the modern age and use the means that are available to us now. We're getting there.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

That's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lizon, for a brief intervention.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Gentlemen, I would like to follow up on Mr. Albas's question.

My association is mostly with Polish veterans here in Canada, because Poland is where I come from. Most Polish veterans fought under British or Canadian command, like the 1st Armoured Division, but here in Canada you would get people who fought on different sides, not necessarily on the same side Canadians were on.

How does the Legion deal with those veterans if they want to participate in your activities? Does this create any problems or frictions?

[Brad White]

First, the Polish veterans branch in Thunder Bay is one of the strongest ones. We also have a very strong association with the Polish veterans here in Ottawa, and we keep close ties.

We recognize that other countries have been allies, particularly during World War II, and we recognize and assist those individuals as allies during World War II.

Sometimes old animosities are hard to erase. As an organization, as the generation progresses, those animosities are falling away. Some people will never let the animosity fall. It's just in the nature of what they experienced, and I don't think there's anything we could ever do about it.

I've served in NATO. I've served in Germany alongside Germans. I've had German tanks assigned to my squadron. We have no problems working together. We work together in Afghanistan right now. We are a NATO country.

So I think as we've progressed as a nation, we've also progressed in our relations with former enemies. We're moving forward, but there will be individuals who will have difficulty moving forward with that. When people want to associate with us, we make sure we attempt that association to make sure we're inclusive.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Is my time up?

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

You have one minute.