Evidence of meeting #7 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was person.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to both of our witnesses.
I want to do a little comparison here, just to clear up some negative insinuations that were made not long ago in comparing what's available from workers' compensation and Veterans Affairs.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.
I think Mr. Hawn is using the word “negative”. He's probably referring to my questions. My questions were not negative, I wasn't trying to put a negative spin on them. If Mr. Hawn chooses his words carefully I will not interrupt, but if he keeps on in that fashion I will certainly be putting....
Liberal
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer
That's not a point of order. We'll stop the time, and Mr. Hawn, you carry on.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Some of the statements that were made were false.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Again, Mr. Chair, would Mr. Hawn please avoid using improper language.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer
Mr. Karygiannis, he did not mention any person in particular. He made a blanket statement that some statements were false. Anybody reading the transcripts would know he's not mentioning anyone per se, he's just making a statement, and as far as I'm concerned, he is free to say that as long as he doesn't patently indicate the individual who has made those comments.
Thank you.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Let me make a comparison. There's a lump sum at workers' compensation, and it sounded as if some of the names were exactly the same. There's an earnings loss benefit at Veterans Affairs, similar to workers' comp. There's a permanent impairment allowance at workers' comp. It's called “permanent impairment allowance/supplement” in Veterans Affairs. There's the retraining benefit in both places, and it sounded as if they were plus or minus in all those things, or about the same. Is that a fair statement? Heads are nodding yes.
With respect to home renovations, that takes place in workers' comp. That also takes place in Veterans Affairs.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
With respect to home maintenance, modification of automobiles, grass cutting, lawn mowing, housecleaning, etc., does that take place at workers' comp?
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
That also takes place in Veterans Affairs. So just to make that comparison, we are talking pretty much the same thing, plus or minus here or there, depending on the province, and so on, but the same range of benefits is available in workers' comp and Veterans Affairs.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you.
I'm glad that was corrected.
Dr. Mustard, the whole point of a program being designed is not to promote or encourage lifelong financial dependence, but to encourage rehabilitation and retraining and getting on with life on one's own terms. That's a central tenet of workers' comp. Is that fair to say?
President and Senior Scientist, Institute for Work & Health, As an Individual
Yes.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
From what you understand is that the central tenet of Veterans Affairs?
President and Senior Scientist, Institute for Work & Health, As an Individual
It is the ambition of the charter, yes.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I'm interested in some other experience. You mentioned some numbers, $25 billion, twice the number spent on these programs as spent on EI. So clearly getting somebody back to work, just from a purely economic point of view, is good for the economy.
President and Senior Scientist, Institute for Work & Health, As an Individual
Yes.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Could you talk a little more about the good for the individual, which we've talked about: self-esteem and all that kind of stuff, and compare that with other countries' experience? I'm sure you've looked at other folks' experience.
President and Senior Scientist, Institute for Work & Health, As an Individual
That's a very good question. I'm going to use up all the time staring at the ceiling.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer
Dr. Mustard, if I may, if you wish to reflect on that question and maybe send something back to us in writing that may be very helpful.
President and Senior Scientist, Institute for Work & Health, As an Individual
I will give a short answer. I think the quality of the evidence around the benefits to people's well-being about engagement at work, especially after a period when they've not been able to work, is really compelling. It's one of the reasons why the workers' compensation schemes and the private LTD plans in this country are so focused on providing case management services to ensure that the employment relationship is retained and that the individual worker is oriented toward returning to work.
In the case of Canadian Forces personnel releasing from the military for medical reasons, that employment relationship is ending, and there's an additional challenge, which is to support the Canadian Forces member in the transition to civilian life where I think services and supports that are in the charter are really important.
Did you want to chime in on that?
As an Individual
I could just add that much of the research that both Cameron and I are aware of around the benefits of work and health is international research. There is Canadian research that found that, very recent Canadian research. But there was a major study done in the U.K. by Burton and Waddell that was published in, I think, 2006. They were asked by the British government to answer the question “is work good for your health?” Their conclusion was yes, after 500 pages.
Dame Carol Black, another U.K. person involved in the disability world, has made the same kind of conclusions. So it's internationally recognized.