Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2013

[Keith Hillier]

There would have been, going back a couple of years, probably two and a half to three—including a team leader, so it's about three.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I understand that when the district office closes, the case management services will be based in New Brunswick. I know that you're going to tell me that they do home visits. That's fine.

How many case-managed veterans are there on Prince Edward Island?

[Keith Hillier]

There are 63.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Okay.

The study that the committee is undertaking right now is as a result of the provisions within the Enhanced New Veterans Charter Act requiring a comprehensive review. Some extensive and excellent work has been done by the ombudsman that will guide us, I think, in our deliberations.

As I look at the report prepared by the ombudsman and in particular at the recommendations, I see many recommendations that are going to go the bottom line. Has the department costed the recommendations made by the ombudsman?

[Keith Hillier]

It has not costed all of them.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Can you point to any recommendations made by the ombudsman that are low cost and that would be easily implemented without dramatic financial impacts?

[Keith Hillier]

Mr. Chair, I wouldn't want to speculate on that. I just referred to when the minister was before this committee; the ombudsman, as the minister indicated, has important input into the process. So have veterans' organizations; so have the parliamentarians around this table. I wouldn't want to prejudge any particular idea or suggestions.

I think that's why the minister would like to ask this committee to study and to make recommendations. I would hope that you will factor into your deliberations and your recommendations the numerous reports and recommendations that the ombudsman has made.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Here is my concern, Mr. Hillier. It seems to me that there's been a lot of work done by the ombudsman, and I fully expect that government will have to take a look at what it would cost to implement some of these recommendations. I think we on the committee would have to have some sense of the fiscal impact as well.

How best can we get at that? Is this a question that is rightly asked of the ombudsman, or is there some other way by which we can get some detailed information as to what all of these things will cost?

[Keith Hillier]

Mr. Chair, it is first of all a case of defining what the changes would be and estimating the number of veterans who would be impacted by them; then it becomes a bit of a mathematical exercise. Let me give you an example, Mr. Chair. If you were to increase, for example, the top end lump sum payment—sadly, at 100% it is for death—by x number of dollars, our statisticians forecast, in consultation with the Canadian Armed Forces, how many veterans may be injured, and that would give you an indication of these numbers.

Regarding some of the other recommendations, I can't speculate as to what this committee may decide by way of recommendations to government, but my advice to you, having been around this for a long time, is to make the recommendations as clear as possible so that they can be more easily costed.

I leave it to the committee to decide where it would like to get costing expertise. I won't speculate on that.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you, Mr. Casey. Thank you, Mr. Hillier.

We now move on to Mr. Hayes, from the Conservative Party, for five minutes, please.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't believe it was mandated that we do a comprehensive review; I think the minister asked us to do a comprehensive review, but that we only had to do a basic review. I'm glad, however, that we are doing a comprehensive review.

That being said, I want to focus on this. Since forming government in 2006, this government has provided Veterans Affairs with almost $5 billion in new funding, and nearly 90% of these dollars go directly to services and benefits for veterans. Can you please share with us how much of these funds is spent on rehabilitation?

[Keith Hillier]

We're just looking up the number for you. We have it right here.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

While you're thinking of that, I want to step into the three streams that you talked about. One was medical, one was psychosocial supports, and the other was vocational rehabilitation. Within that component, you mentioned skills and education. Specifically on education, I want to get a better understanding, because we're aware that the minister just announced that $75,800 is available for education. The ombudsman was very pleased with the changes being made that are specific to education.

I want to get a little better understanding of the educational component of vocational rehab and of whether you have read the ombudsman's statements and whether you agree with them. Again, we're looking for improvements, so I want to get a sense of what improvements you think still might need to be made in education.

Those are my two questions.

[Keith Hillier]

Ms. Pellerin will respond.

[Anne-Marie Pellerin]

The vocational rehabilitation aspect of our rehabilitation programs has, as you mentioned, undergone some regulatory change whereby participants in vocational rehab can obtain services up to $75,800. Previous to that, the regulations were a little more restrictive; it was line-by-line amounts that were allocated—for tuition, for example, or for Internet services, and so on. The global amount provides a lot more flexibility to both our case managers and to the veterans who are participating to have more choice and latitude in the vocational services they are able to obtain.

The education and retraining benefits are provided through our vocational rehabilitation program. It can be basic retraining in the area of expertise of the released member, or it can be an entirely new direction in terms of employment and the training required to obtain civilian employment. The vocational plan is based on the individual veteran. It's based on their individual needs, previous work experience, their disability condition, and their civilian employment interest.

As I said, the recent regulatory changes provide much more flexibility, if you will, for the veteran and for the case manager working with that veteran.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Is there any emphasis placed on—and this was a recommendation from the ombudsman—the job market and on having a close look at what skills are in demand and analyzing that and gearing the veterans, though obviously aptitude is the most important, towards an actual job?

[Anne-Marie Pellerin]

Absolutely. Our vocational counsellors who work directly with veterans over and above the case managers will look at the labour market situation in the area where the veteran is or plans to locate to ensure that the vocational direction is going to have a positive outcome. So obviously, the training that would be approved would be in the context of, as you say, the veteran's background skills and the labour market situation in the geographic area.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

On the total new funds provided for rehabilitation, which was my first question—I think you were looking that up—do we have a value for that?

[Anne-Marie Pellerin]

We have a value in terms of our expenditures over the past number of years for the rehabilitation program, and in the most recent fiscal year, 2012-13, our expenditures on rehabilitation were $18.4 million.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I am assuming that was significantly more than, say, five years ago.

[Anne-Marie Pellerin]

It would be. Five years ago we would have spent $7.9 million, and that is for the entire rehabilitation program—medical, psychosocial, and vocational.

[Keith Hillier]

It's important to note, Mr. Chair, that prior to the new Veterans Charter, the figure was zero, that we didn't do it.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hayes, Mr. Hillier.

We'll now move on to Madam Perreault, please, for five minutes.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Good afternoon. I want to thank the witnesses for joining us today.

Mr. Hillier, it's true that over 40 years in the public service represents a great deal of work. I see that you have some solid support, and that sometimes helps.

I will ask you a few questions and, if I should interrupt you during one of your answers, it may be because another question came to mind.

We have often discussed case managers, but I would also like us to talk about the criteria used to determine whether an individual can or cannot obtain the services of a case manager. I would also like to know whether an individual's disability percentage is directly related to those criteria.

In addition, I want to discuss mental health issues. For instance, would an individual who has no physical disability and no official mental health issues, but who is struggling to transition to civilian life, be entitled to a case manager's services?