Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 6th, 2018

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

What can we do?

[Michel Doiron]

That is actually what we are doing. That's part of the process we're looking at to eliminate the steps. As an example, we work very closely with the military. We are no longer requesting all the medical files. They've given access to certain systems and there are certain files we know we don't need so we're not asking for them. That's eliminating some time. We are actually looking at exactly what you just said. If it's not complete, like your passport, return to the veteran. We're actually looking at that.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I have to get a second question in. Thank you.

It's on commemoration.

Mr. Butler, I know we invested in some improvements in investments in certain areas and improvements in cemeteries and that, but I'm hearing some veterans tell me—and tell me if you've heard this—that they don't see themselves on many cenotaphs. If they were in certain places or most places. For example, if they were Afghanistan veterans, it doesn't mention Afghanistan on certain cenotaphs.

Have you heard that and what would you say to that?

[Bernard Butler, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you for the question. It's certainly a pleasure to be here today.

That's clearly an issue that we are concerned about in terms of trying to ensure that we understand fully what the modern-day veteran—that's how we refer to them—wishes to be recognized and how to go about doing that.

I would point out that cenotaphs across the country are not owned by Veterans Affairs Canada, they're owned by local communities and so on.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I agree, yes.

[Bernard Butler]

It's a very challenging question, actually, because a lot of modern-day veterans will tell you that they don't even see themselves as being veterans—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That's right.

[Bernard Butler]

—let alone looking to be recognized at a typical November 11 event, for instance, like we had a few weeks ago here in Ottawa.

We are cognizant of it for sure, Mr. Samson. We continue to survey our population of veterans. We continue to ask that question, and we continue to try to reflect the modern reality of our population.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

In closing—and I was closing, if you could give me just a quick second—I'm hearing a lot about it in my riding. A lot of them are talking about it, so it's an issue.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Madam Ludwig.

[Karen Ludwig]

Thank you.

I was getting quite caught up with my colleague here.

Thank you all for your presentations today, and certainly for the work that you're doing for veterans.

I'm not only the daughter of a veteran. I'm actually the sister of a veteran. Veterans Affairs certainly is an important service that so many of us recognize as invaluable and critical, really, to the health and well-being of the people who have served and have given so much.

We heard from different witnesses regarding veterans who are homeless. One of them specifically was Matthew Pearce. He's with the Old Brewery Mission. He's the president and CEO. One of the things he had recommended was temporary rent subsidies. Is that something that's being looked at, not only within Veterans Affairs but also as a whole-of-government approach, maybe with the national housing strategy? How would that work for a veteran?

[Bernard Butler]

Thank you so much for the question.

We certainly have heard that as a proposition, and we certainly know that there are similar approaches in the U.S., as an example. It is one that we're certainly mindful of. I think it's one of those many good ideas that is out there and is being considered as part of the overall response. I think it's really important to underscore the fact that the homelessness issue in Canada, both for Canadians and for veterans, is one that quite clearly requires a global, collective government and community response, and there's no single answer to the problem.

We have certainly heard that particular idea now and are certainly mindful of it. It's one that we will be exploring further with our many partners in this domain. As the minister said, that's the type of thing where.... With the homelessness round table we had in June, we had the opportunity to engage with so many folks who really work in the day-to-day world of homelessness and who have much to offer in terms of that collective, global solution. We're certainly mindful of it, and it's something that we'll continue to look at.

[Karen Ludwig]

Thank you.

My next question is actually related to research. We've heard from a number of witnesses that a lot of the information they're collecting is anecdotal. Is there a plan within the government for the measurement and collection of data? I'm wondering how Veterans Affairs measures success in the programs that exist today.

[Bernard Butler]

I thank you for the question because it really is quite an interesting one.

The area of research in the domain of veterans is absolutely fascinating. As you know, there are organizations like the Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research, with whom we are strongly partnered, and we have partnerships with a whole range of other peers, including the Canadian Armed Forces, DND, Statistics Canada and so on. There's a lot of data being generated now, for sure. From our perspective, singularly within Veterans Affairs Canada, the reports and so on that we produce as a function of our research, we certainly do publish where appropriate and where possible. We make them available to the public through our websites and so on.

There is a lot going on in that domain, for sure. As I said, it's an area that seems to be burgeoning. Recently, at a Five Eyes conference that our minister attended, it was a singularly recurring theme among our allied countries, in terms of maximizing research in domains such as mental health, suicide, homelessness and so on, and to ensure both that there are opportunities for collaboration and that this information is disseminated internationally.

[Karen Ludwig]

Thank you.

Of the $1.1 billion for total operating expenditures, which was just mentioned, what proportion was actually allocated to mental health services?

[RAdm (Ret'd) Elizabeth Stuart]

I don't have the exact figure for mental health services at my disposal at the moment.

[Michel Doiron]

That is because there are a lot of different components to the $1.1 billion, so we'll have to give you that. OSI has a percentage, and then DA and mental health, so we'd have to figure that out, but we'll get that done.

[Karen Ludwig]

Thank you.

My next question comes again to the collaboration piece. We've heard from a number of witnesses who have said that, as a veteran, the challenge sometimes is that an organization, a provincial government or a municipality, will say, “Oh, you're a veteran. That's not our responsibility”. Is there a plan, as you're working through programs from a practical perspective where you may be more working in collaboration with the provinces than perhaps has happened previously, to make the gap smaller?

[Michel Doiron]

The answer is yes. Canada is a big country. We deal a lot with health care in Veterans Affairs, but we're not a primary provider of health care. We subsidize health care. We support provinces on health care.

We do work with all provinces. We probably don't work that much with municipalities, but we work with various groups in the communities that help with veterans' homelessness or.... There is a multitude of them, and our local offices are extremely well attuned to whatever is in their community. If you're in Saskatchewan, you have a certain reality as opposed to Halifax as opposed to Toronto. My area directors and my staff, case managers and veterans service agents, are very well attuned to that.

At a more macro level, we do work with provinces, because every province has a different mechanism for charging back. They have different rules and regulations for health care related to veterans, so we deal with them, either my colleague in policy or from an operational perspective. As an example—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you.

Mr. Brassard.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Michel or Bernard, which one of you, either of you, was involved in the Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue transfer?

[Michel Doiron]

I was not involved with the transfer, but I'm now on the transfer committee.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

What was your understanding when the transfer agreement was made between the federal government through Veterans Affairs and the provincial government with respect to the level of service to our veterans?

[Michel Doiron]

The transfer agreement stipulated that the level of services was to be maintained.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Right, so on October 2, the day after the Quebec election, Mr. McColeman wrote a letter to Premier François Legault because of complaints of veterans within the Ste. Anne's Hospital.

I actually visited it. As I said to the minister, I visited the hospital back in June. As fate would have it, I spent about an hour there. I talked in particular to Mr. Solkin and others as well about the level of care and how it has diminished over the years with fewer employees.

As fate would have it, as I left the hospital to take an Uber ride back to my hotel, the driver of the Uber was a long-term employee. He had spent 35 years at Ste. Anne's. We started talking about the reason for my visit, and he told me that the level of care has diminished to a point where the safety and security of our veterans are at stake.

What are you doing about that?