Veterans Affairs Committee on June 7th, 2016

[Gary Walbourne]

It is a bit of a catch-22.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

That ends the first round of questioning.

We're going to suspend for about five minutes and then we'll come back.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

We'll start our second round with Mr. Clarke. You have six minutes.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ombudsman, Ms. Hynes. when soldiers with a minimum of 10 years of service leave the Canadian Armed Forces, they get a record of service card. According to my information, they do not get a record of service card if they have not served for 10 years.

Should they not receive the card regardless of the number of years they have served?

What is your opinion?

[Gary Walbourne]

When I was deputy ombudsman at Veterans Affairs Canada, we did a review on an ID card for veterans. I was absolutely staggered by the amount of emotion and sentiment that was wrapped around that type of identification. I think you become a veteran the day you enlist.

We're at a point in time, I think, when I wonder why we have multiple cards. Why isn't there one card that follows this person through their life, allows them access to their benefits and services at Veterans Affairs Canada, and identifies them? I think we're there. I do believe and am of the firm opinion that you become a veteran the day you enlist, not the day you get out.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Do you think it would be desirable to eventually include a

a smart chip

on the veteran's card

where you would find some health information and so on?

[Gary Walbourne]

I'm glad that you're bringing that up. I will take the liberty, if you don't mind, sir, to send you a copy of the veterans ID card report, because in that report we talk about the potential to expand this forward. The card is going to be created for about 12.5¢, and we can put a chip in there and enable the technology at any point going forward.

Chip technology, to some in my demographic, is pretty magic stuff, but it has been in existence for 20 to 30 years. Banks have been using it. People have been using it. The recommendation was made to adopt a card that would follow the person through their life and have it chip-enabled so that you can walk into a Veterans Affairs Canada office and have your card scanned, and then your file comes up and we know who you are.

Yes, I think we're there.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I know that under the previous government steps were being taken to start this process of 2.0 or 3.0 cards. Do you know if there's something going on right now in DND or VAC concerning that?

[Gary Walbourne]

There's nothing I'm aware of that's going to be the type of card we're speaking to.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

My next question is on a completely different topic.

The Royal Canadian Legion is a group recognized by an act of Parliament; it has a special place in the veterans' world. A lot of groups in Quebec City, where I was elected, have told me that they do not have access to the facilities on CFB Valcartier—such as the parade ground, the gym or the officers' mess—if they want to hold events.

People from Wounded Warriors, for example, have asked me to write a letter of support, asking the Valcartier base commander to allow them to use the facilities, on the same basis as the Royal Canadian Legion.

Is that situation a problem for you?

[Gary Walbourne]

I try very hard to stay in my own lane of authority. Utilization of the facilities and how access is approved or denied is well within the chain of command and outside my purview completely.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I understand.

In 2009, during my army basic training course, which was being held at Saint-Hubert, near Montreal, we were visited by the Canadian Armed Forces ombudsman. He told us about our rights as Canadians. He explained to us that we had basic rights, even though we were in an institution that controlled us.

When you visit recruits during their courses, if that still happens, do you tell them about the existence of the Department of Veterans Affairs and about the services and benefits they may be able to receive at some stage?

[Gary Walbourne]

When we do our outreach—our “stakeholder engagements”, as we call them—funnily enough, a lot of the questions come back to Veterans Affairs Canada and benefits and services. Thankfully, I've had the opportunity to work there, so we can have a little more detailed conversation.

This transitioning piece is not only a Veterans Affairs Canada issue. Fifty per cent of all complaints coming into my office have to do with end-of-career issues. We're up 30% now over last year on complaints, so there's something happening in the environment.

What I've found is that when we engage people, they want to know not only about what's happening to them now but also what the future looks like. I'm very pleased that I have the ability to speak a little about Veterans Affairs or benefits and services, but yes, we do get a lot of questions from the serving members about Veterans Affairs Canada.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Certainly, when recruits start a course, they are so bombarded with information that they will surely forget about the existence of Veterans Affairs Canada. I know that they get packages of information that they quickly throw into a closet. Perhaps you already do this, but it would be good to include an information sheet on Veterans Affairs Canada. Perhaps it will end up in someone's closet too, but that's another story.

Since I only have nine seconds, I'll keep it for the next round, because I want to talk about universality of service, which is a big topic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

You've just used all nine. Thank you.

Ms. Lapointe is next.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Walbourne, Ms. Hynes. I am very pleased that you are joining us today.

Mr. Van Kesteren has been a member of Parliament for 11 years and is here for the first time. I have been a member of Parliament for seven months only and I am on this committee for the first time too.

I would like to talk to you about the mandate letter for the Department of National Defence. This is an extract from that letter:

Work with the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence to develop a suicide prevention strategy for Canadian Armed Forces personnel and veterans.

In your view, what are the priorities in suicide prevention for Canadian Armed Forces personnel and veterans?

[Gary Walbourne]

Prevention and reduction of this issue means a multi-pronged approach. I'm stuck on having a solid platform ready for the releasing member, and that's financial services, benefits, and those things that are essential to life. I think that's number one.

Number two, we need to start talking again about awareness and opportunity. A third party—maybe that's an opportunity for people to step in. If we're going to hold on to universality of service, we're going to have to find venues and ways for soldiers to come forward without the fear of losing their career. We're going to have to adapt as we go.

The mandate letter between the minister and the Minister of Veterans Affairs, who is also our associate minister, to have the two of them working together in a holistic view should bring us some good results, but we have to start having a frank, honest conversation about getting the platform right for that member who is about to step off. Everything else we do will be secondary to that. Set them solidly in life, give them a platform to leap from, and then let's talk about what the future looks like.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Earlier, our colleague Mr. Clark mentioned that the fact that senior officers are responsible for too many soldiers, around 50, is linked to suicide in the military. I do not understand what he meant.

[Gary Walbourne]

One of the things you'll find, especially in those suffering from operational stress injuries, is that when you take them out of the unit or a very tight construct where there's a very clear chain of command and put them into an environment that's a little looser, it probably doesn't help them. Putting someone who has had a structured way of life with command and control into an environment that's maybe a little laxer than that is probably not helping them.

What the other member was referring to was that they're talking about bringing more senior management into the JPSUs so that there would be a clearer line of structure and command and control and decisions could be make locally. That may be part of the issue.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you for those clarifications.

I understand that having someone responsible for 50 people is a lot, but I did not see the link with mental health issues.

You mentioned a platform. What has been done in the area of suicide prevention? Was your office consulted about the plan?

[Gary Walbourne]

We haven't been consulted, but I think a lot of things are going on. I don't know if we have a coherent approach yet. I know the Chief of the Defence Staff and the senior cadre of the Canadian Armed Forces are talking about this at every opportunity they get. It's in every newsletter that's released. I'm encouraged about what I'm hearing. People are finding avenues to step forward contrary to universality of service, so I think we're doing the right thing.

Are we doing it enough? Do we have a coherent plan and program? How do we link with Veterans Affairs or outside entities? I don't know if we're there yet. As I said, I'm encouraged with the walk and talk of the senior command, but we've just got to keep having those conversations. The visibility that's been raised by the senior group is admirable. Do we have programs and things in place? If we raise the awareness and open the door and they walk through, are we prepared for that, and what does it look like?

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Do you have anything to add on this, Ms. Hynes?

[Robyn Hynes]

The only thing I would add is that as part of the Veterans 20/20, the one that the ombudsman mentioned earlier, this is one of the task forces that they've set up. We've been invited to participate as an observer. We haven't been there yet, but we hope to be kept up to date through observing at that task force.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Really, it is still a very important issue.