Veterans Affairs Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2016

[Debbie Lowther]

Yes, it is. The majority of our volunteers are still serving members, veterans themselves, or military family members, so instantly you have that peer support, that connection, and that bond. It is very impactful, not just for the veterans we serve, but for our volunteers who, as I've said, are veterans and serving members themselves.

Oftentimes, the veteran we're helping looks at the volunteer and says, “Wow, he transitioned out of the military successfully, and maybe I could learn from that.” What that person doesn't realize is that the volunteer sometimes is saying, “I'm really struggling myself, but I'm better off than that guy.” It goes both ways. We provide a service to our veterans, and, while they don't realize it, they're providing something for our volunteers as well.

We have a lot of volunteers who were that veteran who couldn't get out of the basement. They saw one of our brochures or heard something on the news and thought they would give it a try. It has been very therapeutic for them. I'm not saying that everybody feels that way. We have had volunteers who jump in with both feet and find that it's too overwhelming for their own recovery. But definitely, peer support is key.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

On that note—and any of the three of you may want to speak to this—do you feel there's a role, whether it's at the case manager level or another level, for more veterans to be involved in Veterans Affairs and service delivery?

[Nora Spinks]

Peer-to-peer supports can be very successful. We've seen, both at a program level and at a service delivery level, peer-to-peer supports, both within veterans services and within mental health services. We're also evaluating those. For example, there has been a long-standing peer-to-peer program within and among forestry workers. They have some of the characteristics of a military family, in that they live away and there is some risk, so we're learning from that peer-to-peer program to see if we can apply that learning to peer-to-peer programs that are targeting or focusing on vets.

The challenge, though, as Debbie mentioned, is that sometimes it's just really hard, so it's not the be-all and end-all, but it certainly has a role to play in the fabric of the supports that need to be available.

[Col Russell Mann]

I will underline one important point. Hiring more veterans who are going to be reaching out to other veterans, and who are a good fit and can handle it, is absolutely critical because of trust. As Debbie has said, just being from that community means there's an instant rapport. A whole lot of things don't need to be said or explained over and again when you get a new case manager or when you get moved to a new city. There are a lot of benefits that come from having folks on the other side of the table who have walked the walk and are trying to reach out and help.

[Nora Spinks]

It's a way to leverage the knowledge and life experience. If we can find a way to capture that, both in peer to peer...but also by getting advisers to Veterans Affairs and other organizations that military and veteran families come in contact with....

One of the things that is absolutely clear in the literature is that, by and large, military and veteran families are courageous, resilient, strong, and capable. We just need to be there when they need some additional support. We're not suggesting that all military and veteran families are needy or in trouble. There is an enormous pool of strength and experience that is unique to this community. If we find a way to harness that within Veterans Affairs, but also within the community and the kinds of programs that Debbie has been leading, then it's a win-win situation for sure.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you very much.

I think the research is very important. I myself witnessed the impact of the work on the ground.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I really appreciate having you here today. From both perspectives here, the amount of work that's being done independently and yet with VAC is really encouraging to me, especially what you're doing, Debbie, as volunteers with that personal...and yourself Russell. You know like none of us how to deal with these circumstances and to see the big picture.

The whole homeless issue.... I'm from the Prairies. We have veterans. This younger generation is very hard to find, even for our Legion, although they're out there working hard. I heard someone say that a lot of them are so hard to find because they do not want to be found. That's obvious, right? They've made that decision for some reason. Do most of them come from a scenario where there are, as you said, family members, referrals, or people who they could be interacting with, but where it may just have become too much, and they felt, for whatever reason, that they had to go to the streets?

[Debbie Lowther]

We see a lot of different situations. When we do get a referral from a family member, it's often that the family member has done as much as they can. They just don't have the capacity to do any more, yet they still love that person and care for them.

With respect to the veterans being hard to find, veterans have a unique set of survival skills, so they can easily hide themselves away. Having said that, we have a lot of veterans who aren't homeless who hide themselves away in the basement. It's been our experience that if you can find the ones who don't want to be found—I think they think they don't want to be found—and if you can crack through the wall that they've built up, then they realize what they've been missing out on in life.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay, thank you. I appreciate that.

How many has your organization been able to...?

[Debbie Lowther]

Over 1,200 since 2010.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Are these success stories for you, or are they in-process like any other scenario?

[Debbie Lowther]

They are every different scenario you could imagine. There are some that are huge success stories. For us, the biggest success stories are when we get a veteran back on their feet, and then they turn around and volunteer with us. That's the whole pay-it-forward thing.

We have veterans who are still struggling, but they're making their way through, and then we have veterans who fall off the rails and go back to previous habits. But we don't give up on them. If we can maintain contact with that person, our goal is to let them know that there's somebody there, and that there will always be somebody there.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

You mentioned some good things. Turnaround time is much better. There are fewer forms to deal with. You did say as well, though, that it seems the time frame has changed somewhat, because now cases seem to be more complex. Do you have any idea why?

[Debbie Lowther]

I don't know why they've become more complex. I don't know if it's because the veterans we're seeing are opening up more. One example I can give you is that in the last year, it seems as though every female veteran who's come to us in need of assistance has been the victim of military sexual trauma. They're coming out freely talking about that. I think it's probably as a result of the Deschamps report that came out and a lot of the media coverage surrounding that. I think it's probably why that situation is being talked about more.

I don't know why the increase in the complex cases, but we do see cases—again, to give the female veteran example—where they're struggling with mental illness, substance abuse, fleeing a domestic violence situation, or having to lose their children to children and family services. That sounds like a hopeless situation, but we've had that situation: we now have a mom who has her kids and who has a stable environment.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Right.

I'll just mention I was on the HMCS Fredericton for a day, a night, and a day. I would recommend that you all—

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

I did it.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I had the most green moments of my life for a while there. I didn't realize that the majority of the people on that ship are nauseous most of the time. I just thought anybody out there obviously doesn't have that problem. Why would you go do that otherwise, right?

So yes, if you haven't had an opportunity, I would really encourage you to take that on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I think we're all going out on a submarine later.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes. The submarine, I'm still...but anyway. You have such a high level of respect when you have a chance to really engage, at least a little bit.

I have one more thing. We're here to study service delivery. There's both National Defence and Veterans Affairs, and we're trying to develop that seamless transition. You mentioned how frustrating it is when someone's injury has been determined and assessed, they know what it is, and then they go to VAC, where it's reassessed...and they said they don't. We've heard witnesses from both directions, that they were released to VAC way too soon, that they weren't ready, and then of course the other situation.

Do you see a way that this could be resolved? I still don't understand who makes that final decision. If it's National Defence, should it be both sides coming to a decision together —i.e., everything's in place, the house ready for someone with no legs, they're not addicted to anything? I'm wondering what your perspective is, because you have that experience.

[Debbie Lowther]

We keep throwing around the word “collaboration”, but I think there needs to be more collaboration between VAC and DND. We believe that sometimes it can take a whole team of people to support a veteran. What's wrong with a veteran having a case manager from DND and a case manager from VAC working together to determine what's best for that veteran, working with the veteran and his family too? I think that would be of benefit.

[Col Russell Mann]

When the goal is to provide better service to the member and family, they absolutely should be sitting together discussing the case together. I feel very strongly that Debbie's hit the nail right on the head on this one. It would make things so much easier to simply make that a joint effort and deliberately say, for the medical release process in particular, that it has to be joined.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Rioux.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge on what is a new experience for me.

You said that all over Canada there are different needs and different experiences for organizations. They don't have the same experience. If we talk about French speakers in Quebec and French speakers outside Quebec, that's two million people. Do you see a difference between the English family and the French family?

[Col Russell Mann]

I have experienced both situations. As an anglophone, I was transferred to Bagotville. I was a minority in a culture that was very welcoming and patient.

That said, I think there is a duality of existence. However, many of the services for those who are serving and who do move around the country are very deliberate in their efforts to reach minorities as a priority, regardless of whether that is inside Quebec, where there is arguably a large majority of francophones, or outside of Quebec, where you might be in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, but you can be served by the family resource centre in the language of your choice. They will help you find access to child care services that are in the language of your children. There are tremendous efforts, institutionally and with their partners, to try to make sure that minorities feel at home, regardless of where they live.

That is a general statement. There are gaps. There are cases I personally dealt with when I was in uniform where it didn't work and we had to intervene to try to restore the sense of feeling community and feeling connected, especially for those of a different language.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

I think there is less of a military culture in the province of Quebec. Mrs. Lowther, you said you help 12,000 veterans. How many of those people are from Quebec? Another thing, you spoke about volunteers. Is it easy in Quebec to find volunteers to help veterans? Is the Legion an organization that is involved with veterans as well?