Veterans Affairs Committee on April 3rd, 2017

[Jody Mitic]

Personally, I don't know. I've accepted things such as suicide, depression, and all that as being side effects that some of us get in this gig. First responders have the same issues, and emergency room doctors and nurses. They're tough jobs, and people do them voluntarily for a reason.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Chair, could I ask the witnesses to provide a synopsis of the impact from perhaps their military careers compared to what they were experiencing previously in their lives, maybe even some of the experiences of some of the people they know? I know it's a difficult question, but we hear that often, and that's why I felt that it was important to bring it up.

[Jody Mitic]

The only reason I would hesitate, sir, is that I joined the military at 17, and most of my colleagues did as well, young men and young women. In my opinion, I became an adult and a man in the military. Everyone's crazy when they're 17, right? We're all looking for who we're going to be as adults. It would be tough for me to judge whether I was different or the same.

Better people to ask would be my family.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Okay. I'll leave it there. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

With that, if you want to answer that question, get it in to the clerk and he will get it to all the committee members—if you can.

[Jody Mitic]

Sure. I'll still try.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In regard to the recognition of the sacred obligation to veterans, it feels very much as though that has been forgotten. How important is it that we remember that and make it part of how we function, how we interact, how we deal with and support our veterans?

[Jody Mitic]

I think the sacred obligation would come back to the spirit of what we're dealing with. If my comrades didn't have to say things like, “I'm fighting with Veterans Affairs for this”, that would be a big step. There are a few benefits that were lost along the way without really asking us that I think should be re-implemented. There were a few things that were taken away or modified with the new Veterans Charter that I don't think were fully vetted out when they made these decisions, which could be re-implemented. That would go a long way as well, the biggest one being the lifetime medical pensions.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay. That's my next question. How important is that pension for medically releasing veterans? We keep hearing it's coming. Would that make a lot of difference in terms of how veterans felt in regard to recognition for their service?

[Jody Mitic]

In my case, personally, I didn't know the charter took away the lifetime pension. If you asked most combat soldiers, instead of a lifetime monetary pension, you're going to get this lump sum, and then there's going to be this patchwork of benefits that you may or may not qualify for at certain times in your life, it would have been, “No, go pound rocks”. Look, it's not like it's a ton of money. A 100% pension, maybe indexed under the price consumer chart—whatever that thing is—would be maybe five grand a month for 100% disability. It's not like we're talking a ton of money, but it's something that.... Again, right now I'm able to work and make a few bucks, but one day I might not be able to, and I'll know I have a roof over my head and food on the table at the minimum.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

One of the things that we've also heard is, yes, there are mental health services available for CF personnel, but once you leave, those mental health supports are not specific to the needs of veterans. For example, group therapy is one of the ways of trying to, I guess, provide veterans with help. Mixing veterans and non-veterans doesn't work, and I wonder if you could comment on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I'm going to have to let somebody in, and I'll come back that. We're just going to run a short little round around the time out.

Your three minutes are up, and I'm going to flip to Mr. Kitchen for three minutes. We'll come back to Mr. Graham, and then you to finish it.

Okay, Mr. Kitchen, you have three minutes.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Brindle—and feel free, if I'm overstepping my bounds on this question, to not answer the question, or if it makes you uncomfortable at all—I realize this may be hard, but I'm wondering if you would be able to give some suggestions on approaches that you might take when that veteran is in that crisis situation. Regarding that suicide attempt that's in that crisis position, do you have any suggestions that you might have to.... We talk about a suicide hotline. What good is a hotline if no one's going to pick up that phone? Right?

[Joseph Brindle]

It all comes down to the word “suicide”.

It's a scary word. I'm not afraid of it. I'm actually quite lucky. I feel like someone who has diabetes, or a heart condition, or a kidney condition and knows it. I have a certain condition where, under the exact correct circumstances, I don't want to live anymore. I avoid those circumstances, such as booze and working overseas, and I work with my therapist on meditation and yoga. That is my treatment to avoid suicide. It's no different from having a heart condition and eating a Baconator every day—you're going to shorten your life.

We have this stigma on the word “suicide”. We have to get rid of that, so that you're not afraid. If you have a suicide ideation or you're thinking about it, you're not thinking about actually doing it. It enters your mind over a long process. Your mind starts playing games with you and starts eliminating the reasons why you should live, on your own.... That fear of coming out and saying, “I just feel down”, without all the cavalry being called in all of a sudden, is the way you balance it, especially if you're doing medicine changes, you're by yourself, and you don't have anyone to talk to. You ride it out, thinking that it's going to get better, and you don't want to call and get everyone wound up again.

When you lose your temper in the Veterans Affairs office I've seen what happens, so you bite your tongue. You try not to get angry about the system, which, as we've all heard, is not just aimed at me. It's a system-wide problem when you can submit a claim in September 2015 and still argue it.... A lot of us joke that they do it on purpose to test us, to see if we actually are injured. When it comes down to that, there is no camaraderie. There is no brotherhood like we had in the forces. It becomes you and an insurance company. I don't see it as VAC; I see it as an insurance company. We all know the word “appeal”, because you're denied the first time.

To go back to the question of suicide, look at the word as not so scary. Everyone in this room is capable of suicide based on the information available to them at the moment they choose to do it. No one is above it. Let's not be scared of it. Let's get some peer support groups and start getting the word out that it's okay to speak about it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Graham, you have three minutes.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Brindle—or Don, if you will—I really appreciate that you came in and told us about the whole story, not just the end of your career. Hearing the background I think is important.

[Joseph Brindle]

I thought it was important because there have been recent studies saying that almost half of Canadian Forces personnel have suffered at some point from child abuse. Being a survivor of it, I thought it was important for you to realize that. As well, the depression rate is much higher in the Canadian Forces than the national average. Those items have to be addressed in the Canadian Forces.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have a quick question for you. You mentioned “spin dry” a couple of times. Can you tell me more about what spin dry is?

[Joseph Brindle]

Spin dry is a course. If you get into any trouble with alcohol, you're sent away to it. I believe it was held in Kingston or something like that. There are probably various locations.

[Philip MacKinnon]

It's at various locations throughout—

[Joseph Brindle]

An MP would have much better information on spin dry, because he's—

[Philip MacKinnon]

I've never done it—

[Joseph Brindle]

I'm not saying he did, but he has probably sent a lot of people there. Or he has reported—

[Philip MacKinnon]

Their CO did.