Evidence of meeting #68 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was benefit.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

General  Retired) Walter Natynczyk (Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs
Michel Doiron  Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs
Rear-Admiral  Retired) Elizabeth Stuart (Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer and Corporate Services, Department of Veterans Affairs
Bernard Butler  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs

9:20 a.m.

Gen Walter Natynczyk

In the past, the uptake on the career transition service was minimal because it was so restrictive in nature. I think in the past year we had a handful, maybe less than 30 veterans, actually use the service. Again, the narrative of this past budget is one of well-being, to give veterans this opportunity of meaningful purpose.

In these supplementary estimates we have the seed money, if you will, to start working with contractors, with providers who would then work individually with veterans coast to coast to coast in order to ensure that they have the skill sets, to put their own resumé packages together, and then work with regard to job placement. So, it's really about starting at the beginning with education and training, going all the way through to landing them in an appropriate role.

Often for veterans—this is really key—the first job may not be the right job. There is a cultural thing that occurs with them in terms of getting back into civil society. What's key about this career transition is it's not a one-off. If it doesn't work the first time, find what the second or third solution is so that the veteran actually can land something that he or she can identify with and gives them all that they need for that next phase of their life.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Let me quickly add that an important element there is flexibility, because that will respond to their immediate needs and most fulfill their needs. As well, the importance of purposeful work for mental health cannot be stressed enough. That's a major dimension here.

9:20 a.m.

Gen Walter Natynczyk

Could I also mention that this benefit is for spouses as well.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

There is one last thing, which I don't think has been done yet. I was wondering about the intention. Something that I recommended recently was to have a better transition from DND to Veterans Affairs, and to see if information could be transferred more easily. Would you guys be willing to work with DND to enable a better transfer of information?

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

The minister and I are both committed to it . My first meeting with him after I was sworn in was at Esquimalt. I went out there almost right away. We're committed to it on direct command from the Prime Minister. This is something that we've been assigned to do. It is a prominent part of my mandate letter. It is something that he's verbally instructed me to do, and the Minister of National Defence and I are committed to it.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Thank you very much.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Mr. Samson.

November 30th, 2017 / 9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

Minister, I'm extremely happy about your appointment. It was exciting to see an individual with your capacity take this role, and, as you said earlier, bring new eyes to the challenges, so congratulations. I was extremely impressed with your French as well, so continue the good work.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

He's been hard on me in the past, so I appreciate that.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

I know. I have to tell you that probably the highlight of my two years as an MP is being appointed to this committee. I say that because I represent—and of course you would know—Nova Scotia, which has the highest number per capita in the country of military and veterans. My riding has the highest number in Nova Scotia with 23% now. Some of my neighbouring MPs would question that number, but I feel very confident about that number. It's extremely important for me to be on this committee and to continue to advocate. I've been advocating for two years and I continue to. I will also continue to learn as it's so important for us as MPs to be able to articulate some of the challenges that some of our veterans have faced, continue to face, and will continue to face. I just did a round of presentations to every Legion in my constituency, town hall meetings. I did five in the last two months and they've been outstanding. Veterans appreciate what we've done. They are underlining the things we must continue to do. I shared the questions with your department, and we're finding answers to those together.

I want to underline that there is a lady named Trish, who works in the military resource centre. She has followed me every night to every one of my meetings so she could add her information. Her dedication is impressive. She didn't have to. She volunteered and she allowed our discussions to be that much more. I wanted to touch on that and thank her as well for that work.

That being said, can you share a little bit more about the changes that we've brought forward for military resource centres for veterans?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

I have visited three and I have a lot more to go to. The people who work in our military family resource centres are the front lines. Their commitment—I mean, Trish's commitment to you, going around so that she can make sure that you're informing veterans as well as you ca—is completely in keeping with the commitment to the people I've met. I really want to emphasize that this is in no way partisan; it's just to make sure that the right information is out there. You'll learn more at town halls and you'll see more of the commitment not only of our employees but more importantly of veterans.

Perhaps you want to get into the exact figures as to how much we've increased military family resource centres.

9:25 a.m.

Gen Walter Natynczyk

If I could just add, as the minister has indicated, our MFRCs, are on that front line supporting the families who often are the informal caregivers to our veterans, especially those veterans who are medically released. We had a very successful pilot of seven locations on seven bases where we had veterans given access when they are medically released to those military family resources centres.

In going back to the importance of budget 2017 in terms of well-being and supporting the families, the announcement in that budget and some of the funds in these supplementary estimates are with regard to opening up all of the 32 bases in terms of the military family resource centres. That is in order to provide support to those veterans who are medically released in their areas. Where they need additional support—counselling, support to families—they do extraordinary work in supporting whether it be parents or other family members, in counselling on how to deal with a veteran, especially a veteran with a mental health injury, in providing support in trying to find a doctor in the local area, and often in helping the spouse find employment in the area.

In terms of surrounding that veteran who is dealing with so many tough issues as they transition to civilian life, those military family resource centres are absolutely vital in providing folks with the skills and knowledge to safely and securely re-establish in society.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

For most of them, it's in their neighbourhood. They're neighbours.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

I got that feeling when speaking with veterans that they very much appreciated the improvement of immediate services to them.

I have two quick questions. I'll put them together so we make sure we get the time respected.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

You have about 50 seconds.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

One is on the promotion of communication. Many veterans are not aware of exactly the changes that took place. We need to do a better job in communicating that. It's crucial.

The second one is on the Invictus Games. Why do we put money into that? How does it feel? Share some information on how important it is to us and to veterans.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Communications is a massive priority, and one that I feel personally as minister, primarily to make sure that the veterans know what services are available to them. There's been a lot that's come down the pike in a very short order.

On the Invictus Games, for a lot of these veterans, it was a call to duty again. They got to put on a uniform again for their country. It was huge. It was very emotional not only for the veterans who participated, but also for the veterans who watched. I can't emphasize it enough, and I hope we have a presence at future Invictus Games.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

Thank you.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Ms. Wagantall.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Thank you. I get to use my time now.

I have a number of things I want to mention, because from what I've heard from veterans, it's important for you to know. You may know it already, however.

In regard to the lifelong pensions, I'm aware that the candidate in Surrey has served significantly in the realm of Equitas doing fundraising and whatnot, and this issue is very important to him. Our veterans have made an ask here for lifelong pensions, tax-free, subject to legislation to change any rates, and no clawback on their military pensions. I just want to put that on the table today to make it very clear that this is what I certainly hope is going to happen in response to the promise that this government made.

You talked about transitioning into the military and being moved into a hierarchy. When someone comes out of the military, that falls to the wayside to some degree. I don't see that happening in transition. With the earnings loss benefit and the increase to 90%, there was also a change in demotions, shall we say, to the lower people. They are not receiving the same level of increase that higher-ranked people are.

When it comes to the education opportunities, I applaud that after six years and after 12 years, there's this opportunity, regardless of whether you're injured. However, if you are in the military, your boots are on the ground, and you're somewhere between 18 and 20 to 25, chances are you're the one who's going to be injured. A lot of that tends to happen early on in service. Those individuals will not have that opportunity, and they're injured. If you're injured between one to five years of service, you only get the two-year SISIP. The requirements there are not reasonable to someone who has been harmed. That is something that is very concerning to me.

Minister, you said in the House that if you need help, all you need to do is raise your hand. I don't know if you're following me on Facebook, but that really stuck in the craw of people who said, “I've raised my hand.”

You also spoke just now of the benefit of the doubt. We did a major study on mental health care. Mefloquine is an issue in this country for our soldiers. I'm thankful that they've finally relegated it to a drug of last resort, coming into line more with the rest of the world, our allies, on this, but that in itself is not enough. That's like having a car with a recall because of something that is causing death, and you just say, “Well we've fixed it for the future. We're not going to deal with what's happened in the past.”

These veterans gave a lot of testimony at this committee. On the mental health report, none of it was really included because it was considered anecdotal. If you're listening to our veterans.... I cannot comprehend how that could be an argument for not hearing what they had to say, unless we want to just have a whole bunch of people take mefloquine and do a study, which obviously is not the way to go.

We've had so many suicide intervention strategies. The reality is that suicides are happening all over. We need to know the numbers, and we need to know the whys. This is going to happen, even if the government doesn't do it itself. If you want some help with that, I have lots of information in my office. It's time, I think, that we came face to face with the realities of what has happened and recognize that to a far greater level. That in itself would make a difference to these individuals who end up suffering, like Lionel Desmond, who took the lives of his family along with his own, which is not unusual. The mentality is, “I don't want them to suffer because of me.”

Those are issues that are very important.

The Invictus Games were phenomenal. The symposium was amazing. I attended the whole thing. I had an opportunity there to speak with the Minister of Veterans' Affairs from Australia, Mr. Tehan. He talked a little bit about your conversation and wanting to get together more in research. I hope that happens with mefloquine.

That's my rant. There are many ways that I think, when we look at how we're taking care of our veterans when they come and they're injured, that hierarchy cannot be part of the equation. If they need education, then they need education. It shouldn't be only at six years or only at 12 years. If they're injured—and it's not a huge number—we should be doing everything we can for them, and the rest, I believe, will fall into place.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Do you want to take the rest of her time?

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

How much time do we have?

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

One minute.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

Thank you.

During one of my early meetings after coming into this role as critic, I received this from the veterans ombudsman. I called it the “spaghetti page”. The title of it is “Canadian Forces/Veterans Affairs Canada Program Relationships with Budget 2016 & 2017”.

Have you seen this, Minister?

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

I have.