Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 30th, 2017

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

What did you think of it?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

From up close or afar...?

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I can send you a copy.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

No, I hear your point.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

This is the navigation that our military people face while they're transitioning out of the military, but also what they face if they even fall into this little box down here. Where do we go next? This is what I call the “spaghetti page”. It demonstrates a dysfunctional relationship between the veteran and Veterans Affairs, which I hear over and over again. It's the “no” culture: say “no” so many times and they'll go away. Try to navigate this if you're someone who has any kind of PTSD or mental illness issues, and it's saying, “Well, you qualify for something over here and this is kind of where you go next.” We have to correct this culture. I hear it over and over again.

Do you have any comments regarding that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

We're out of time.

Mr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, General Natynczyk, for coming.

This has been a very important committee for me. I requested to be on this committee from day one. Air force base 17 Wing is in my riding, and there are some very worthwhile veterans groups, ANAVETS and Charleswood Legion 100. I was very honoured to be selected last month for the commemorative trip for the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Passchendaele. That was a very moving experience. This has been, as I said, a very important file for me from day one.

One thing that impacted the people of my province is Shilo air force base, two hours west of me and nearby the veterans service centre in Brandon, Manitoba. It was one of the nine that were previously closed, and I was getting a lot of feedback about how difficult that was making things for a lot of people now having to drive through two hours of bald-headed prairie to get their services in Winnipeg. I was honoured to be at the opening of the one in Brandon.

Can you give us an update on the status of the renewed services now that we've reopened these? Is it all nine of them that we've reopened?

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

It's nine plus one, so 10—Surrey.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

And it services up north.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Okay, thank you.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I'm going to have you speak to the specifics of that, but before I do, I want to get back to Phil, to your point about the “spaghetti page”, because I think it's really important.

I'll be honest. I'm not sure if that's an entirely fair depiction of what every single veteran has to go through, because there are a number of options that are portrayed there. I will tell you I believe impatience is a virtue. I am impatient about streamlining as much of this as we possibly can.

I know, frankly, from the deputy's commitment, which he has reiterated to me again, that it is vitally important that we maintain a veterans' point of view on how we deliver services. It is vitally important that everything new that we roll out.... I call them “sherpas”. There are a number of different words that we can use for them, but the onus is on us to navigate those waters. The onus is not on the veteran to navigate them; the onus is on us to achieve results in as short an order and amount of time as we possibly can so that they never have to see that page or feel it, more importantly.

That's my commitment to this committee and that's my commitment to veterans.

I'll let you speak to Doug's—

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

Opening up the 10 offices—the previously closed nine, plus the one in Surrey—and, as the minister mentioned, also now having a mobile office that works through the territories, has been huge in bringing personal services back to those regions where we know there are a large number of veterans. In the case of Canadian Forces Base Shilo and the Brandon area, that whole area west of Winnipeg and east of Regina, we know we have a lot of veterans...and to reduce the difficulty of trying to get face-to-face services.

I was at the office we opened in Prince George, and it was amazing. The door opened up at this office at 0830 and there were three door-crashers—one veteran who had just become homeless, and we were able to help that veteran; one veteran who wanted a reassessment; and a third veteran, a 94-year-old World War II Royal Canadian Air Force veteran who didn't want anything. He lived on his own on a 200-acre property with no electricity and no water. However, he knew at some point he may not be able to drive, and he just wanted to know that someone would be around to take care of him.

The fact is that this face-to-face meeting was so important. Even though we have the electronic connection through the My VAC Account, I want to emphasize two veterans used this platform to say they wanted to register for a My VAC Account where a lot of the programs out there are all there. A lot of the links to get re-established are there. That's what some veterans want. Some veterans want to see someone face to face. We've been able to open that Brandon office as well as all the other offices from Corner Brook and Sydney all the way out to Surrey and Kelowna. The veterans often want to see the Veterans Affairs folks who can walk them through the process to demystify the challenges at the same time as we try to make our system a lot less bureaucratic.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

Minister, you didn't really have a chance to respond to any of the statements made by Ms. Wagantall. Do you care to respond to any of those in the time we have left?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Let me get back to my notes because there was quite a bit there.

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

Could I address one?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Yes.

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

I'd like to emphasize one point on the education. There are a number of points here, but on the education, in the last budget we created this education and training benefit at these two gateways of six years of service and 12 years of service. That applies to all veterans. What just came out in the budget goes into effect on April 1, 2018, but today, an injured veteran who has difficulty in re-establishing has access to an education, a vocational rehab program that exists today and has existed for a while for up to $75,000 no matter what the age. The fact is they are medically releasing, and they have access to that vocational rehabilitation resource of $75,000 already. This additional program is for folks who meet these two gateways. We are taking care of those who may release very early on, and release later in their careers as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Brassard, you have five minutes.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Minister, it's good to see you this morning, and I'm glad you are on the road to recovery.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I want to address the elephant in the room again. Minister, you have a lot of power, as did Mr. O'Toole when he was the minister of veterans affairs. Mr. O'Toole held the Equitas lawsuit in abeyance. I watched it again this morning because I wanted to be reminded of what the Prime Minister said in Belleville. When he spoke about veterans fighting their government, he said that no veteran “will be forced to fight their own government for the support and compensation that they have earned.” He also said, “We will reinstate lifelong pensions”.

Minister, given the power that you have, the same power that minister O'Toole had, if you believe that the lifelong pension option that you're going to be proposing to cabinet—and I understand and appreciate that it hasn't gone to cabinet at this point—satisfies the argument that has been so vigorously defended by the government—and I'll remind you again that it was your government that reinstated the lawsuit after the abeyance agreement ended—will you or can you commit today to speak to the Prime Minister before he leaves for China to again hold that Equitas lawsuit in abeyance or stop the lawsuit altogether? If you're that confident that this pension option reflects what those veterans have been fighting for, will you do that?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I don't think I can commit to that happening before thePrime Minister goes to China. I am very confident that we are going in the right direction, my team and officials, in fulfilling our mandate promise of a pension-for-life option for our veterans. I am confident that we are on the right track. I am confident that what we present to the country in very short order will meet those tests.

Ultimately I think of those tests as being on two levels: that of the veterans who will be affected, either currently or in the future, have to feel that it meets the test; and that of Canadians as a whole, who have to feel that it meets the test. I am very confident that it will do so. That's what I'm striving for, and we don't have much time to do it.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I hope, then, Minister, that if this pension option as it will be proposed by the government doesn't meet the arguments of the Equitas lawsuit, you understand and can appreciate that there will rightly be significant disappointment in this government among the veterans community in this country, because many of them voted for what the Prime Minister promised in Belleville. You understand that.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I do. The weight of the expectations for this initiative is heavy.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I want to get back to something you said earlier, because it caused me some confusion. You said that 40% of new spending has gone to veterans, when in fact $1.06 billion has increased in the Veterans Affairs budget since the government was elected in 2015. There's been some significant spending on the part of the government. We're seeing $20-billion deficits, which is far more than the Prime Minister had promised, again.

How do you quantify that number, that 40% of new government spending—because you did say “new government spending”, and I confirmed it with staff at the back—has gone towards veterans? How do you deal with that number? How do you reconcile it?