Evidence of meeting #73 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vocational.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Elizabeth Douglas  Director General, Service Delivery and Program Management, Department of Veterans Affairs
Sean Cantelon  Director General, Canadian Forces Morale and Welfare Services, Military Personnel Command, Department of National Defence
Phil Marcus  Vice-President, Operations and Support Service, Department of National Defence
Kathleen McIlwham  Vice-President, Wellness, Disability and Life, Manulife Financial
Susan Baglole  National Manager, Rehabilitation, Career Transition Services and Income Support, Department of Veterans Affairs

11:55 a.m.

Cmdre Sean Cantelon

In the strategy for Canadian Forces morale and welfare services, the whole point of non-public property is that we're a member-driven organization. The money that we manage and the services we deliver are the members' money, and the services are there for the members. In one way you can think of it as a co-op: every member of the Canadian Armed Forces is a member of this co-op, and we manage all of these services.

We are extremely client-driven. We've just initiated a survey with Nanos on our services. When we look at one of those cases that speaks to frustration, as Phil would know, the moment I read the headline, he has an email in his inbox about two minutes later asking for the status of the file and where we are.

Ms. McIlwham used an excellent example. When we've had a process in the past that caused one of our members friction, the entire point is to learn from that, so when we see those problem headlines, we immediately go into them. For obvious confidentiality reasons, we can't speak to them, but I can assure you that we have looked, for instance, in the financial sphere when anyone comes out and said they're financially challenged. We do monitor Facebook, and we're actively involved. We determine whether or not their disability payments have gone out on time or if there has been a snag in the file.

We don't forget that one of the key points of this whole organization or structure is that the chief of the defence staff is our boss. He is the chairman of the board, so appeals go to him if necessary. She touched on the appeals; I'm pleased to say that not one has gone to the chief. We've managed them internally and turned them over in favour of the members, because it's a member-driven organization. We're not profit-seeking, we're member-seeking.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Mr. Kitchen is next.

February 6th, 2018 / 11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Commodore, it's nice to see you again. Thank you and welcome back. I've been away from the committee for a number of months, but it's nice to be back.

Quickly, if you don't mind, I'd like to ask Ms. McIlwham a question. Did I pronounce that correctly?

11:55 a.m.

Vice-President, Wellness, Disability and Life, Manulife Financial

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

We talked briefly about privacy, and my colleague brought that up. You mentioned the issues and that they sign forms, etc. Can they also rescind that consent?

11:55 a.m.

Vice-President, Wellness, Disability and Life, Manulife Financial

Kathleen McIlwham

They can. There are implications to that. Generally, the most common one is that if they are with a program with us and they're also going to apply to a program with Veterans Affairs, they could rescind it with us, and then we don't forward it. The problem then is that they have to gather it up again and then submit it to Veterans Affairs. It's usually in their best interests, if they're going to apply for that program, just to have us do it directly.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

You mentioned that a significant portion of veterans do not apply for this until after they are released.

11:55 a.m.

Vice-President, Wellness, Disability and Life, Manulife Financial

Kathleen McIlwham

Yes, 8% to 10%.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Yet we see information throughout that says that they're advised of this beforehand. How do we stop that? How do we make certain that 100% of them apply beforehand? We're looking at barriers. What can we do to make certain that they're applying before they're done and it's checked off and already done before they've even released?

11:55 a.m.

Cmdre Sean Cantelon

That's a Canadian Forces employer challenge, and the chief's intent is very clear that you will not be able to release until you go to transition services, healthy or unhealthy. Unhealthy is not the issue if they're medically released, and the voluntary releases are exactly that, so you will not be able to get out.

That is a great question to go to Brigadier-General Misener when he comes, because one of his pieces is building that capacity so that every member of the Canadian Forces goes through this transition. They will go through those checklists, and these examples will get caught.

Noon

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Don't we have that in place right now, someone to make certain that's done?

Noon

Cmdre Sean Cantelon

When you release from the Canadian Armed Forces, you go through a checklist of what you have to do. On that list is whether you have any medical conditions. You must do a medical and a dental check prior to release.

The question always comes up of what kind of circumstance someone would be in to sort of pop up at the other end. An example—and this really gets into the surgeon general area—could be that they have a temporary medical category that precludes their ability to deploy, and because of, say, a mild stroke or something, they've decided through a family relationship that this job is going to “sort of kill you”. They will decide they want to be gone in a month on a voluntary release; then they would reapply at the other end for both programs. There's a window for non-service and service-related for 120 days. There's a little difference for service-related and Veterans Affairs.

That could be an example of someone deciding they are going to get out, even though they know they have some medical issues to be dealt with. The idea of our process is, as the chief said, you won't leave until we get that. We have to become faster in our medical reviews and all of those, and that's best addressed by the surgeon general, but globally that's the concept.

Noon

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you.

I grew up in a military family. The assumption is that most soldiers are retiring at the end and that they are ready and are walking out the way they want to go. When my father retired at 55 because of forced retirement—as a general, he had to retire at that age—the transition seemed to be quite easily done. We see that, and that is what the assumption is. He was ready to retire. Now, he came in with a perception of when he was going to get out when he signed up. Over the years, as he re-signed in and stayed in, he had a perception of when he would get out.

The impression I'm getting right now is that this perception isn't there. The perceptions that soldiers have when they are signing up and when they get out are two different scenarios. Have you looked at that? Has VAC looked at what we are saying to them beforehand, when they have a certain perception, yet when they come out, they are expecting something else? Can you comment on that please?

Noon

Director General, Service Delivery and Program Management, Department of Veterans Affairs

Elizabeth Douglas

Yes, certainly. It's one of the areas that we really spend a lot of time on, because how do we make members more aware as to what services are available to them with VAC? As you may be aware, over the past couple of years there have been so many more new programs. Indeed, over $10 billion of new services and benefits have been announced.

To that end, we are looking on several fronts, one of which is working with my colleagues on improving the transition process. We are also exploring numerous other means, including using My VAC Account, which is an online portal service. We too, through our communications division, monitor what is on Facebook, what veterans are saying, and what their needs are. Through My VAC Account we have all of our information about our programs there. We are working towards an online service portal. We want to know how that we can get it to members when they first register and then how we can make it broader and more inclusive.

One of the pieces we're looking at right now is how we can have just one application form. We're not there yet. There is no other government department that has the number of services and benefits we have that has one application form.

The other piece we're looking at is making My VAC Account very intuitive. If the member or veteran goes in and fills in their circumstances, instead of making them reapply over and over again, the system would tell them what they may be eligible for. It is something we're exploring; it's something we're working on right now.

Noon

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

That perception is a big issue. Some countries in the world basically have the services embedded within the military, which provides the services, as opposed to a separate entity. Would it stop some of these barriers if we had that contained within DND, versus it being a separate entity?

Noon

Director General, Service Delivery and Program Management, Department of Veterans Affairs

Elizabeth Douglas

I'm afraid I can't answer that, as those decisions would be made at the political level.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Thank you.

Ms. Lambropoulos is next.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Thank you for being here with us to answer our questions.

I recently read that a lot more people have been reaching out in the last two years. A lot more veterans have been reaching out to Veterans Affairs and getting more services. I was wondering what you think has caused this change and how outreach has improved.

12:05 p.m.

Director General, Service Delivery and Program Management, Department of Veterans Affairs

Elizabeth Douglas

I can speak about outreach. Again, I'm speaking about the fact that we are involved in lots of work with my CAF colleagues so that the member is aware of our services. As well, we're reaching out in terms of stakeholder engagement, in terms of having meetings with organizations that represent veterans. With individual veterans, we also have the NCCN line. I just spoke about My VAC Account and how we reach out with web services. In the communications division, again, we are doing a lot of work in terms of answering quickly to things that may be posted about VAC.

Furthermore, there has been a surge in our numbers. As I mentioned earlier on, we have had a 36% surge related solely to the increase in the earnings loss benefit when it went up to 90% on October 1, 2016. The number of medical releases has also gone up, from 1,500 to about 2,500 per year, so we have an awful lot more members who, when they become veterans, are very interested in our services. We are writing, and have right now, a VAC 101 brochure, so we're following all the communications avenues we can pursue, as well as the outreach via stakeholder engagement, etc.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Thank you.

Have you thought of ways that it can improve even further? Obviously you've done quite a few things in the last few years that would help it improve, but are you working on better ways to improve?

12:05 p.m.

Director General, Service Delivery and Program Management, Department of Veterans Affairs

Elizabeth Douglas

With all of our programs, we also measure. When there is a headline around anything that is problematic, we pay immediate attention to it. It is something that we at VAC take very seriously.

We look at all of those pieces. We look at our performance measures. We see how we can take anything that may not be reaching our service standards, make that better, and build that into outreach about those programs.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

What would you say is the biggest barrier to outreach?

12:05 p.m.

Director General, Service Delivery and Program Management, Department of Veterans Affairs

Elizabeth Douglas

The biggest barrier to outreach...we find it at different stages in a veteran's career. For example, when a member releases, we often do not see that member at VAC because they may not be ill at that time. The injury—perhaps it's something that is psychological—may not happen until a later date. What we also have to do is ensure that veterans are aware of our programs and services at any point in their life. That's something that we are aware of, and we look at that outreach as well.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Thank you.

My next question is with regard to transition. What would you say are the gaps in transition? I know that you said you have case workers, case managers working with specific veterans and their families in order to give them the best services available for their specific situations, but what are the gaps at the moment? How do you think we can improve transition?

You spoke also about the risk assessment tool. I was wondering if you could go further into what exactly that entails.

12:05 p.m.

Director General, Service Delivery and Program Management, Department of Veterans Affairs

Elizabeth Douglas

The risk assessment tool was based on a tool that was developed in the west and used in a different setting. We have taken it on ourselves at VAC, because we thought there was value to it. However, we recognized that we had to update it to better meet the needs of veterans. That's what's being piloted right now, and we're quite confident of the accuracy. The functionality will define whether it is a high, medium, or low risk, again under all of those indicators of well-being. It's going to look at, for example, financial well-being. Is it a high risk, medium risk, or low risk? We can go through all of the well-being indicators on that front.

Once we have our pilot completed, we will have more information about how well it's working. If there are tweaks that are needed, we will certainly undertake that.

In terms of transition, I think it's going to be the subject for next week. We are going to be talking about the centres, the JPSUs, and also where our VAC case managers are. In some centres, we have more than just case managers; we have a full team there. It depends on the particular centre and it depends upon the need of the centre.

We will continue this. Our work with the VAC-CAF joint task force is just beginning. We have identified priority areas. We are looking for those priorities to be signed off by our deputy and by the chief of the defence staff. After that, we will have a clearer platform as to what our priorities should be and how we should deliver those.