Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 6th, 2018

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

I have a couple—

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Sorry. Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for coming.

I want to direct this question to Commodore Cantelon and Ms. McIlwham.

Over the time we've been doing these studies, we've had some input, some perceptions from veterans with regard to disabilities. We had a report from one veteran who said he had to keep filing the same form for his disability on a yearly basis. We had another one who appeared at this committee in May 2016. He said he was on a long-term disability and for the first two years he wasn't sure what was going to happen after that, explaining that he hadn't really had an explanation and there seemed to be a loss of connection, from what he was describing, between SISIP, Manulife, and VAC.

Can you speak to this? It leads to a public perception challenge. How would you address these, and how would you answer to these kinds of complaints in general when they come across your desk?

[Cmdre Sean Cantelon]

I'll start with a very global perspective. The program has evolved throughout the years. This is not the program that was signed for as insurance in 1967, let alone 1975. That is what those individuals experienced at the time. Unfortunately, the programs and processes—and I'll let Ms. McIlwham speak to that—are amended, and the next person goes through and doesn't experience that. The happy customer never complains because it isn't there.

Specific to the issue of forms, I'll let Manulife speak about how they've modernized their processes in the last few years.

[Kathleen McIlwham]

We take any kind of feedback or appeals very seriously. We have a very low rate of appeals, less than one-half of one per cent. We've averaged about 33 a year for the last five years.

On the case you're referring to, in terms of the annual form we send out, we took that feedback. We were quite concerned that there was a perception that it was very difficult for people to fill out the form. We spoke directly with the gentleman who made the complaint to get his direct feedback and to engage him in discussing what he didn't like about the form. We quickly modified the form to make it more customer friendly.

He also talked about how some people struggle. They're frightened of forms, so the fewer forms and the simpler, the better. At that point we also offered the option to people to do it by phone call. We have found that to be a very popular option. People have higher trust when talking to somebody who can answer their questions. Likewise, if somebody's confused about the extension of their program or if a person is unable to return to the workplace after two years, we continue benefits to age 65. We would reach out...I'm not close to that particular example, but certainly our counsellors would reach out and try to explain it to them. Sometimes people struggle with that information, and we have to explain even very simple facts to people more than once. We would continue to respond as the questions came, to try to give them a clear understanding of what was going to happen.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

All right. Thank you.

With regard to privacy issues, of course if there are going to be either human resources or medical issues, privacy is paramount. I'm from the medical profession. I understand that as well.

Could you explain the sharing relationship between CAF and Manulife with regard to what processes or what avenues of information are shared?

[Cmdre Sean Cantelon]

SISIP acts as an agent of CAF, so I'll let Mr. Marcus start with that and Ms. McIlwham will then speak to Manulife.

[Phil Marcus]

The application for the Canadian Armed Forces long-term disability plan has a form in it whereby the member consents to the medical information being requested from the CAF. I can let Manulife speak about the protection of that information once the Canadian Armed Forces submits it to them.

We also get into scenarios of the member wanting either Manulife or SISIP services to share information with VAC, or vice versa. In those cases too we both have forms that we sign and we get the member to sign, and we share that with each other under full authority before we request any information.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

[Kathleen McIlwham]

All I can add to that is we take privacy very seriously, given that we are dealing with medical, mental, or possibly other issues that the person has disclosed to us. Anybody who is bringing information to our organization would sign a clearly worded form about who we would be sharing the information with and for what purpose.

There are times when we ask them to sign something to say it's not just with CAF but also with Veterans Affairs and vice versa. Veterans Affairs would have a similar process to ensure it's very clear to the member and it is their option, so that they understand that it's their choice. Sometimes they ask more questions, but generally speaking, it works very well.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

Just changing gears a little, I only have about 30 seconds.

Ms. Douglas, you mentioned in your brief a benefit for education and training of $75,800. Are there restrictions on what exactly that money is spent on? For instance, if someone's going back to school, does it have to be for books and tuition, or can they also pay their rent? Is this something they get the money for when they're in school, or do they have to submit receipts for tuition, books, rent, and this sort of thing?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

I'm going to turn that over to Ms. Baglole.

[Susan Baglole, National Manager, Rehabilitation, Career Transition Services and Income Support, Department of Veterans Affairs]

The amount of $75,800 is training-related expenses. It does cover things such as tuition and books, and if they're taking a course, specialized equipment. We also have the capacity to pay for dependent care if needed, if they are related. Our contractor, Canadian Veterans Vocational Rehabilitation Services, or CVVRS, processes those claims for us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Johns, you have six minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you for your testimony.

I've recently read reports in the media, namely the Toronto Star, to be specific, that there's a backlog of 29,000 disabled members who are in transition from active duty in the Canadian Armed Forces to receiving services through Veterans Affairs and are without benefits or coverage through that process. The report also states that this represents a 50% increase in the number of disabled service members in transition without benefits in just eight months. Sometimes these men and women are suffering from serious mental and physical health issues. They can be experiencing extremely debilitating health challenges for which urgent care and treatment are required.

Can someone on the panel—panellists can jump in and weigh in—confirm the number of disabled members who are currently in transition without benefits and if, in fact, the wait times for nearly 50% of those in transition still exceed 16 weeks without benefits?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

I can take that question.

That too is a question that I'm going to have to refer to the director general of the centralized operations division. That's outside of my authority.

However, again, we do recognize that there have been delays with the service standards, and there is work under way to ensure that this is corrected. I'd be pleased to take that question back and ensure that you have a response for it.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

You don't have to provide the exact yes or no on those numbers, but we know that it's stunning to hear those numbers. When people serving in the armed forces who have laid their lives on the line to protect the country are left dangling without basic medical benefits or care when leaving active service, that is pretty hard for everyone. What do you think it will take to get that number to zero?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

Again, I'm sorry. I don't have the answer to that, because it's not my area of responsibility. Again, we know that we are working on this problem.

I also want to state that VAC takes seriously and is very proud of our veterans and the service they have rendered to their country. Any time there is something outstanding or something that needs to be worked on, there is and will be ongoing attention paid to that.

[Cmdre Sean Cantelon]

From a Canadian Armed Forces perspective, I'll add that one of the focuses we're working on, one my colleague touched on, is the transition working group. In the Canadian Forces, we put people onto their medical releases. It's a series of.... It could be up to three years' accommodation inside the Canadian Armed Forces while they are getting set up for release. They would have full pay in that time.

As I touched on, the way the long-term disability plan has always been set up is that in the ideal circumstance, there is a medical release. Within a normal pay cycle—so within a month of release—that person's long-term disability plan is flowing because all that is done in advance.

I'm not specifically familiar with the 25,000 number in that article. I've not reviewed it.

[Phil Marcus]

It's 29,000.

[Cmdre Sean Cantelon]

Twenty-nine thousand. That does not sound, with the current stance....

I know you have Brigadier-General Misener coming to speak next week. He is in charge now of the transition process. I'll take that question back so that he'll be prepared to speak to the number of people in the current transition cycle, and how many....

Anyone who is serving in uniform is getting a paycheque. It's only post-release when they would have this issue. It would seem abnormal.... I'm not aware of that kind of number of people not getting disability claim insurance.

I'll leave it at that, and we'll take that back to advise the—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

We know that there is a number, whatever that number is.

[Cmdre Sean Cantelon]

There definitely is a number.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'm looking, really, to the witnesses to, hopefully, get some insight on how we get that to zero. What can we do?

[Cmdre Sean Cantelon]

Again, Brigadier-General Misener will be well positioned to speak to this issue when he testifies.

When I spoke to the panel last year, I was responsible for transition services. This is part of how the chief of the defence staff is increasing the commitment toward our enhanced transition, which is one of our mandate commitments and is in the “Strong, Secure, Engaged” policy.

We've brought a new director general to lead this program, to be in charge of the JPSU. Additional staff are being added. That's exactly the focus: to make this a seamless experience. No one leaves uniform without having either a job set up or the support programs, either from long-term disability or from our colleagues at Veterans Affairs. Their education plan is rolling, or if they're employed, they're straight into their employment, and their adaptive needs, through benefits, are all there. That's the goal.

In reality, there are, unfortunately, a few—usually in the single digits annually—who do slip through those cracks now. Brigadier-General Misener will be able to speak to the total flow that we've seen and how we're going to enhance that and make it.... The goal is always zero. No one will fall through the cracks and no one will be unsupported.