Evidence of meeting #86 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indigenous.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Scott Sheffield  Associate Professor, Department of History, University of the Fraser Valley, As an Individual
Danny Lafontaine  Public Relations Officer, Association des Vétérans Autochtones du Québec
Chief Steven Ross  Grand Chief, Saskatchewan First Nation Veterans Association
Emile Highway  President, Prince Albert Branch, Saskatchewan First Nation Veterans Association

11:55 a.m.

Public Relations Officer, Association des Vétérans Autochtones du Québec

Danny Lafontaine

No, I wouldn't say that at all. I'd say most of the chiefs in Quebec are proud to be Canadians. I know they're proud to be Canadians.

I don't know how it works on the west coast or in parts of Ontario, but I'd say that here in Quebec the problem is that they are fighting against each other. Instead of working together, most of the bands are just fighting against each other. They should be working in unison. I always say that you're stronger reunited than trying to conquer divided. Some people just try to conquer instead of winning the game, or winning the war, as I always say. Basically that's the problem we're having. It's just that communication thing. We were talking a while ago with Mr. Eyolfson, saying that we should work together, get these things going, have timetables—by October, we have to do this—and then work it out. I know we can do it.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Thank you so much for your service, and your passion on this issue for sure.

11:55 a.m.

Public Relations Officer, Association des Vétérans Autochtones du Québec

Danny Lafontaine

Thank you very much, sir.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Professor Sheffield, do you have any comments about that, maybe from a more historical perspective?

11:55 a.m.

Associate Professor, Department of History, University of the Fraser Valley, As an Individual

Scott Sheffield

Yes, I think really what you're dealing with is a long track record. The issues of distrust aren't new. These are deeply entrenched from years of.... I think for many of the bands that we're talking about here, their interaction with government is primarily INAC, and has been primarily INAC; and therefore, when dealing with other departments, there's a presumption of suspicion, even before they enter the community, and a lack of familiarity. That is already an impediment to working effectively with the communities themselves. And that's very much long-standing. I think it's something that will be a challenge to address and negotiate through.

I think part of the problem with Veterans Affairs is this assumption that if you build it, they will come. In this case, you have to go to them. I think that is a real change of mindset in order to more successfully deliver programs and to maybe build some bridges of trust.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

Thank you, Mr. Viersen. I'm cutting you off a little short.

I'd like to say this to the witnesses. You've been incredibly good witnesses today to begin our study, and I want to take time to thank you, on behalf of the committee, for doing that. You're both not only very passionate but also very much experts in your areas of work. Thank you so much for kicking off this historic study, I believe, of this committee to undertake this specific issue. We really appreciate your time today.

We're going to suspend for a short time so that we can change our witnesses for the second hour, and then we'll resume.

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

Committee members, this is the second half of our meeting and we're welcoming two more witnesses for this first day of our study.

First, I would like to introduce Steven Ross. He's the Grand Chief of the Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association. Steven was elected to serve as the Grand Chief on March 31, 2015. He has been active in the association for over 15 years.

Mr. Ross served for the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada. His tour of duty included United Nations peacekeeping duty in Cyprus. Mr. Ross holds a Bachelor of Arts degree and an associate administration diploma from SIFC. He is the chief of the Elder's Council and chair of the General Band Assemblies for the Montreal Lake Cree Nation. He is a member of the Saskatchewan chapter of the Aboriginal Finance Officers Association, he sits as a member of the Montreal Lake Business Ventures Board, and for the past 15 years, he has owned SR Proprietor, a property rental service based in Prince Albert that serves first nations clients with housing needs. He has also been in the trucking industry, with his own tractor-trailer, for a number of years.

Mr. Ross has served as a band councillor for the Montreal Lake Cree Nation for 25 years, with portfolio assignments including education, housing, and economic development. He has worked as band administrator for 10 years and he has managed many band businesses including store manager, restaurant manager, and convenience store owner. Steven has been very committed to his role as grand chief.

Welcome, sir.

Second, we welcome Emile Highway, who is the president of the Prince Albert branch of the Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association.

Emile Highway grew up in Southend, Saskatchewan and at the Guy Hill residential school. He is a member of the Peter Ballantyne Cree Nation. He joined the armed forces in 1962 and completed his basic training with the Queen's Own Rifles. He later transferred to the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, and then to the 3rd Canadian Mechanized Commando, serving a total of 10 years in post-war Germany with those outfits.

In 1977, hoping to increase his career training, Emile transferred to the Royal Canadian Engineers, where he advanced his education, retiring from the armed forces after 20 years of service in 1982.

During his service, Emile earned the European Medal, the Peacekeeping Medal, the NATO and Saskatchewan medals, and the Canadian Decoration.

Gentlemen, first of all, thank you for your service over the years and welcome to our committee. You will each have 10 minutes for your opening statements and we'll follow that by rounds of questions.

Who would like to go first?

Mr. Ross?

12:10 p.m.

Grand Chief Steven Ross Grand Chief, Saskatchewan First Nation Veterans Association

I can start. To start off, I just want to say that you mentioned all my credentials there, but you missed that I was a black star ninja.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

How did we miss that?

12:10 p.m.

Grand Chief, Saskatchewan First Nation Veterans Association

Grand Chief Steven Ross

Thank you very much for this opportunity to be here today. I greatly appreciate it. We do have a lot of stories to tell. We have many things to say. I also want to say that our stories are not noble sometimes. Our stories are filled with hardship sometimes. As I travel around and meet other veterans, I realize that we all have the same things in common—we were in basic, we were in training, we were in the fields, and we went through the same things that everybody does. After a few years in the armed forces, you get to have good friends. I still communicate with friends of mine from 1965 in B.C., two friends of mine. That's the introduction.

Regarding World War I and World War II first nations veterans, all first nations veterans are living in past historical grievance over land promised to returning veterans. Many Canadian soldiers were given a parcel of land upon their return from these historical battles. The property gifted to veterans has been passed on to living family members, but first nations veterans were not given the same treatment as other Canadian soldiers. These first nations veterans have repeatedly advocated for the same benefits upon return from the war.

Saskatchewan veterans organized and started the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations in the early fifties as a way to fight against the unfair treatment they received during and after the wars. I have a booklet here entitled, “We Answered the Call”. It was done by our staff members and there's a lot of information so I'll leave it with you.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

Chief Ross, I'd like to ask you to speak slightly slower because our translators are having some difficulty keeping up.

12:15 p.m.

Grand Chief, Saskatchewan First Nation Veterans Association

Grand Chief Steven Ross

It's my Cree.

A process was put in place whereby each first nations veteran was given a sum of $20,000 in compensation. First nations veterans were given land parcels already allocated within the already identified reserve status land communal property, which they could not claim or pass on to family as it is reserved land for Indians. Mental and physical support services for these war veterans are close to non-existent. Many of these returning soldiers turned to alcohol to deal with PTSD.

We recommend a review of this land compensation for returning first nations veterans and a compensation package be identified, based on realistic market value of the land. First nations veterans were identified as being incapable of farming by the Indian agent and were, therefore, denied any parcel of land. The Indian agents had no authority to make this determination on behalf of Veteran Affairs and the Government of Canada. It has caused great hardship for some first nations veterans.

We recommend a formal apology be given to the veterans and their families for the inequity of treatment and benefits paid to veterans and widows. We want an apology issued for the poor administration of veterans' benefits that were subject to the discretion of the Indian Affairs branch and the biases of the Indian agents.

Many returning first nations veterans have no culturally relevant support or wellness programs. There are no traceable documentation trails to monitor the mental and physical health supports utilized by the first nations veterans. We are interested to know exactly how many use mental health support services, how many need psychiatric services, and how many require ongoing physical health support services.

Many veterans today have symptoms of PTSD resulting from service in contemporary duties in the Middle East. We are unsure of how many receive support services upon returning home. We need to look at alternatives to document the services received by first nations veterans.

Currently we are unaware of any support services offered to indigenous veterans by the communities during their transition process. Maybe some communities do offer support, but no data is available to make this determination.

Through the Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association we offer membership to veterans who have their release papers. The Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association brings a sense of belonging, and through it, gives great support to be together as an association. Great reverence is given to the Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association from the first nations political leadership, honoured in cultural traditions such as the powwow, which recognizes these veterans as a warrior society. This is a prestigious honour given to the veterans and widows of veterans through tradition and ceremony. The Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association does not provide any type of services for physical and mental health wellness.

Regarding the quality of services received by indigenous veterans, the services may be there, and may be utilized by indigenous veterans, but we are unaware of the percentage of veterans accessing these services and the types of services being requested and provided.

The creation of an indigenous veterans affairs unit would assist us in gathering this type of data, determine the quality and effectiveness of services, types of services required, and number of veterans requiring services. With this unit, we will have knowledge of the types and levels of services required.

In terms of indigenous veterans living in remote areas, we can't identify any special supports for them as they access services available for all remote community members, i.e. community health centres. In the creation of an indigenous all-nations veterans wellness centre, Internet and call-in supports can be in place to service veterans living in remote areas.

For specific issues facing veterans living on and off reserve, no data is available to make this determination. Many veterans are unaware of the services available, and how to access them. They are unaware of the benefits they may be entitled to for hearing loss, or injuries sustained by parachuting, training, or battle. Service support inquiries to Veteran Affairs are not handled in a manner beneficial and satisfactory to first nations veterans. Legions are not welcoming to first nations veterans for reasons that could possibly be racist. This further alienates first nations veterans.

I have some recommendations: that a study be conducted for an all-nations veterans wellness facility that has in-house treatment for returning vets, and that will house culturally relevant support services, contemporary health support services, and a first-of-its-kind aboriginal veterans affairs unit; that supports be identified, documented, evaluated, and modified to provide these services; that funding be made available for the construction of the facility and support for operating such facilities; that operational support be provided for the development and creation of an aboriginal veterans affairs unit; that services be made available for first nations Rangers and RCMP veterans through this all-nation wellness centre; that there be support for an annual national indigenous veterans assembly to bring support and comparison of services that are relevant, effective, and efficient to serving indigenous veterans; that there be funding for annual operations of first nations veterans associations across Canada, including office rental, staffing, and equipment; and that there be support services for widows and families.

That is what I have.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

Thank you very much for your testimony, Chief Ross.

Mr. Highway, for 10 minutes, please.

May 8th, 2018 / 12:20 p.m.

Emile Highway President, Prince Albert Branch, Saskatchewan First Nation Veterans Association

Thank you very much. I want to thank the committee for being here. As far as I'm concerned, it's good to be here.

It's a very encouraging sign that the gap we've been talking about for quite a while is maybe beginning to close. Hopefully, we can communicate a little bit better, and the aboriginal veterans, particularly from the north where I come from, will be notified of any changes or any improvements that may be forthcoming in their lives.

I was talking to Professor Sheffield outside in the hallway prior to coming in here, I want to mention something that happens in transition. From my personal experience, I didn't feel comfortable in talking to former military personnel or the Veterans Affairs department. I didn't want anything to do with the uniform anymore. I didn't own any weapons, rifles, hunting rifles, or anything for about 10 years. I completely wanted to isolate myself from that culture. Why was that? I'm not particularly sure. It may have had something to do with two of my friends being killed right beside me.

I will always remember them, McAlpine and Errington. They weren't native, but they were buddies of mine. I ended up in a British Military Hospital, in Iserlohn back in 1965. I was given last rites, and so on, and almost died from the experience. It was a sudden and violent experience. I mention that for a reason. For the Afghan veterans who are returning, or will return, from Afghanistan, the mission is not over. They have been provided many programs, and a lot of support that we in the 1950s and 1960s weren't even aware of, much less received.

First of all, the new programs and services that I'm talking about are in education and training benefits, funds for the payment of tuition. Did we get those? No, we didn't, at least not when I retired from the military. We weren't even aware of career transition services to include a search for a civilian job, writing a resumé, interview skills, and so on. I distinctly remember asking one of my superiors, in 1982, upon release, if he would help me with a resumé. He simply snickered and walked away. That was as far as the support I received at that time.

We didn't receive any support from veterans family programs for caregivers, recognition benefits, etc. For example, maintenance of home and yards, I believe people who are retired now are getting these benefits when they apply. I recently became aware of that. Rehab services and vocational assistance, as far as I was concerned, I wasn't even aware of those things.

I was born in Southend. It's a northern reserve near Reindeer Lake. I'm a veteran from the north, as far north as you can get.

I think I'm unique in that respect. I'm not patting myself on the back or anything, but there are not very many people who come from the northern reserves. I think there are three of them who come from the Athabasca region, the Dene people, and from the Peter Ballantyne band, my band, I think there are about eight of us.

With regard to people being aware of veterans from the north, chiefs included, I don't know if I should say it's not their fault, but they're certainly not aware of the sacrifices and ordeals that we went through as soldiers. With the northern chiefs, there's absolutely no support.

The Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association, which was formed in 1972, attempts to bring awareness to the contributions made to Canadian society by first nations people. As president of the Prince Albert branch, that is my primary purpose. I'm very interested and very passionate about this, because once I got involved with the SFNVA, I really got into it. I felt...not so much that it was unfair, but I guess I wanted people to become aware.

I think what motivated me was Tommy Prince. One time I was here in Ottawa, and I don't know what Tommy Prince wanted or what his request was, but a politician told him that our people will never make any significant contributions to the progress of this country. That man said that to a war hero, the most decorated aboriginal veteran from Indian country.

I never met Tommy Prince, but I've met his nephew. When I heard that, I thought that was so...I don't know if I should use the word ignorant, but it was so insensitive. It was so unfair. A man who had probably never picked up a weapon and stood on the wall would say something like that to a man like Tommy Prince. I decided then and there that I would become involved and try to do something about the experiences, bring the numbers to people, and make them aware of the contributions that aboriginal people made to this country.

One thing I want to mention too is that a lot of aboriginal veterans in the First World War, the Second World War, the Korean War, and various peacekeeping missions all over the globe, fought valiantly under a flag that didn't always protect them. When I came back, even my own people, at least on two instances, called me a traitor, because I had been in a white man's army and then I went back to my reserve.

Some of the experiences I guess are unique, but what I said to these people is that I don't hold it against them for not having served this country or not having worn the uniform. If anything, I feel a little sorry for them, because they will never know the joy that the men and the women felt in their hearts for having worn the uniform and defending the rights of this country.

They did it for one reason and one reason only, for the land, for mother earth—at least in our case. Every chance I get...when I heard about this committee and I got a call from Karine, I thought I have to go. I have to go and at least say my piece.

I don't have any notes. I don't have anything in order. I prefer to maybe be a little...what's the word, scattered or unorganized when I speak about my experiences and attempt to present the case of other aboriginal veterans.

There are so many things that I could have written down. It would probably have taken longer than 10 minutes to do the presentation.

I'm here with gratitude in my heart for everybody who is present and is making an attempt—an honest attempt, hopefully—to do something to close that gap between Ottawa, let's say, and the reserves and the aboriginal soldiers who did serve this country.

Thank you very much.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

Thank you for your words, sir.

We will go to the first round with Mr. Kitchen.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair and gentlemen.

Chief Ross and Mr. Highway, thanks to both of you both for coming today. Thank you for your service to Canada. I hope we will meet again at Cowessess this year and dance again at powwow.

It's interesting, your conversation, in that we've just finished a study on transition. We've looked at transition from the point of view of transitioning soldiers—veterans—into civilian life. What we probably didn't look at or realize was that our first nations veterans have to transition from being soldiers into civilian life, but also into civilian life back into first nations and onto the reserves. Sometimes there's that challenge.

We heard from Mr. Lafontaine in the hour before this. He talked about some of these issues up in the remote areas of Quebec and how veterans are having troubles. Basically, the question is, are they getting the information they need?

I know that both of you are from Saskatchewan. I'm from Saskatchewan. We understand the remoteness of our north. I'm wondering if you could comment on that challenge. I don't know if you heard what Mr. Lafontaine talked about, but is there that challenge for our first nations veterans as they transition back into northern Saskatchewan?

12:35 p.m.

Grand Chief, Saskatchewan First Nation Veterans Association

Grand Chief Steven Ross

I believe the challenge is still there.

It also depends on how old the veteran is when they leave the armed forces. The older you are, the more experienced you are, and the more mature you are. You can assist your people, your first nation, in that manner, because they look at you differently now. With your experience—your global experience, I guess—you're a different person than you were when you left.

They want that kind of person to be counselling our young people. That's what I see in some areas. The younger people are in a much more different situation here, where some of them—and I think many more—are coming out with that PTSD as well. That's something I don't understand, but I know they're having problems adjusting, and they're having problems finding employment and taking classes. Those are the people who really need help now.

When I left in 1968, I went directly from the armed forces to construction in Calgary. I worked there for a while. After a couple of years, I went back to the reserve. I worked there for a while as well, as a labourer, until I finally saw the light and went back to school and to university. After university, it was a whole new world. It was a whole new world for me.

There are different circumstances for different people as well.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you.

Emile.

12:35 p.m.

President, Prince Albert Branch, Saskatchewan First Nation Veterans Association

Emile Highway

If I understand your question correctly, I hope I can answer it. I think a lot of.... I think it's political, and maybe it's a solution between Veterans Affairs Canada and the chiefs themselves, within the reserves. Maybe they can get together.

Also, as the president or the executive members of the Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association, maybe we're not doing enough speaking in schools and during band meetings and meetings of chiefs and councils. Maybe we could do that, but I don't think it's only us who have to do that as former soldiers from aboriginal communities. I think Veterans Affairs Canada can do more to communicate directly with chiefs and councils.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

The previous group also did mention a similar concept of getting groups together, getting Veterans Affairs and the chiefs together. That's what I think I'm hearing you saying, similarly along those lines.

12:40 p.m.

President, Prince Albert Branch, Saskatchewan First Nation Veterans Association

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you.

How much time do I have?

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

You have about 45 seconds.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Okay.

Just very quickly, in Saskatchewan do we know how many veterans we have on reserves right now?

12:40 p.m.

Grand Chief, Saskatchewan First Nation Veterans Association

Grand Chief Steven Ross

We don't have the exact number. We're probably looking at 125 or 150.