Veterans Affairs Committee on May 8th, 2018

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you both for being here and for your really important testimony today.

I'll start with Sergeant Lafontaine, if you could speak a little bit more about outrage. You talked about the high number of homeless veterans in Montreal, and I know VETS Canada does some work, and they have some funding from the federal government to deliver services.

What kinds of services are being delivered to help address those veterans who are living on the street and homeless vets? Can you speak to that a little bit?

[Danny Lafontaine]

Oh, yes, of course. I'm with the respect campaign, as they call it, now with Mr. Steve Gregory, who is a lieutenant colonel, honorary colonel with the 2nd Field Artillery Regiment.

Basically, it's all civilian people working together to get this thing going. VAC comes in and we tell them it's really nice, all their little programs that invite homeless veterans to come and see them. I actually went to them and asked if they think a homeless person has a phone on him or a tablet, saying, “Okay, I'm going to come out and talk to you guys.” Basically I told them to come and walk with us on Je Compte MTL. They don't come out. I tell them they have to come out and see what's on the street right now. That's what we do. I sleep with them. I did that a few times. That's what I was saying: I'm a crazy volunteer guy on the street and I'll sleep with them and I'll talk with them and I'll take them out. Basically, I'm ruining my own life doing it, but still, it's beautiful because it's giving back to me. But it's okay.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I love your continual service to our country, Sergeant Lafontaine.

[Danny Lafontaine]

Thank you very much, Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

When we look at the gaps, what would you like to see to help serve those vets? Obviously these organizations aren't resourced enough to serve the veterans who need it. Do you want to speak to that a little bit, about what we could do?

[Danny Lafontaine]

Yes, basically right now, Mr. Steve Gregory is doing a great job reuniting all these groups, all the groups of homeless that are in Montreal because there are so many of them right now. There's La Maison du Père, there's.... I forget all the names, because there are so many of them. Then we have the City of Montreal that's working with us. There are a lot of people.

The thing is that right now what we're needing is resources, money resources and getting programs in, like one central program where everybody works on that program, so that we could start talking to each other. We're trying to do that, but basically there's money missing. It's not something like...we're not calling for billions of dollars. Probably $1 million would fix most of the problems right now, especially over communication. A million dollars is nothing if we counted 200 or 300 veterans; it's like $10,000 or $20,000 per guy.

Basically if we could start helping them out.... I don't know if you've seen in Calgary and in B.C. right now that they're doing little homeless houses. We're trying to get them. It's a community for veterans, and we're trying to establish this right now in Quebec. We're talking with these people. Usually when you take the vet off the street—this is a true fact, because I've been doing it—when you take the VAC and you give the vet all this help and then you put him in housing with civilian people, he'll go right back into the street. This is their ground, their service thing.

We're doing these little community houses, so there's going to be a community centre where we could get all these veterans, and when they're not doing well, they talk to each other. If they don't want to come and eat, they stay in their little house, and it will work. There's land in Sainte-Anne right now where the hospital was that we lost, which we could get and start doing that. There's a community centre already there; then you have the hospital right beside it. You could have all these people coming in and doing this stuff. We're trying to work on it, but the thing is that we're lacking resources, financial resources.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

In terms of outreach again, I know you talked about the digital gap that there is, communities where they don't have that, but also a lot of remote communities do have an opportunity for us to do outreach.

I don't know if we're doing that well, and certainly VAC is doing that well using what communication tools we have in terms of outreach.

Also, I know that in the United States 30% of their caseworkers are former veterans. They understand veterans' issues. When it comes to aboriginal veterans, I imagine there are a lot of culturally sensitive protocols and a level of understanding that's necessary. Would you see it beneficial if VAC set clear targets to hire veterans as caseworkers to reach out and do outreach to veterans?

[Danny Lafontaine]

Mr. Johns, you wouldn't even have to really pay people. Some people volunteer, like me, to go on these reserves and talk about it, but they're too scared to lose their jobs.

They're saying I'm going to steal their job. I say, no, I'm not, I'm helping them out to get this contact between each other. I can't even work anymore. I'm doing volunteer work because basically, one day my brain doesn't want to work, but I could help them get into it.

This is the part where we're having a hard time getting into the reserves. Even Mr. Steve Gregory wanted to talk to Mr. Bellegarde, who is the highest guy. He never had a return call. We're saying we want to help those guys out; we got all the resources to help those guys out, but they're not talking to us. So there's a two-way thing going between each other.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Well, hopefully we're resourcing people like you.

How much time do I have?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thirty seconds.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Okay. I'll be really quick.

Sorry, Mr. Sheffield, I have so many questions that I'd love to ask you, too. You did your part of the report in 2000 and 2001. Can you identify some of the calls to action or gaps from that report that haven't been filled?

[Scott Sheffield]

I think I would build on what you have just been talking about. One of the things that I noticed in my work for that and work on Métis personnel case files is the difference between the immediate post-war period in terms of VA services and what happens as Veterans Affairs becomes more bureaucratic and less veteran-centric in the 1960s and 1970s. As the service became poor, harder, and mean-spirited, it got much more difficult for veterans. If you could tap into the passion, the commitment, and the dedication of people like Mr. Lafontaine and hire people for Veterans Affairs who have that cultural sensitivity and understanding, I think you would go a huge distance to help close some of those gaps to communication.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I couldn't agree more.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you.

Mr. Samson, you have six minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much, both of you, for your presentations.

I have to be honest that it's a learning curve. We've been dealing with veterans and all the issues around veterans services and benefits, and now we're looking at the indigenous and how they were excluded or lacked services, and the more you learn about it, the more frustrating it is, because indigenous peoples as well as veterans have a lot of catching up to do. I think we're on the right track in general, but when it comes to indigenous people, I'm not so sure.

I guess what I would like to hear from both of you is where are we at today. Today is 2018. What progress have we made in the last 10 years, and what's missing? What should we be working on now? How can we make this system, the transition, better than we've seen? I'm just trying to understand, because we need to submit a report that's going to put recommendations in. What areas are we still lacking, and what solutions do you think we could bring forward?

Again, two or three key things might just help us get where we need to go.

Let's hear from Mr. Lafointaine first.

Then we'll go onto Mr. Sheffield.

[Danny Lafontaine]

I think right now what we're lacking is having these.... I don't want to hit on anybody, but all the chiefs around, the higher chiefs like Mr. Picard here in Quebec.... We need to have these chiefs together with us veterans, indigenous veterans, Métis, all these people, and you guys together to talk at this round table and ask what we can do right now, what are the points, and even having Dr. Sheffield would be great, because he has already had all this part from the past. I have a little bit of the part from now.

I like what you're saying about getting this thing going in the future, not in 10 years and sitting around and saying we've got the same problems again. Basically, this is what we have to do. We have to get the chiefs together with us and say, “Listen, there are problems here”. Let's stop trying throwing the ball in everybody's court and get this thing together.

I have a lot of solutions. I'd put a thousand hours in it. I don't care. I'd voluntarily do this round table and get this thing going. I'm a passionate guy to get my veterans, indigenous veterans, Métis veterans, back to school, back to having a right to live, a proper way to live.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

The first one would be to have this round table, this group bringing everybody to the table. What would you like to see come from that? If you bring them all around the table, and you have those real serious conversations, what do you think that can bring us? What would be two changes you think would come out of that?

[Danny Lafontaine]

First of all, this bond between what's missing right now with VAC, with us, the veterans, who are on the street, and the chiefs.... When the higher chiefs sit down to decide and say, “Listen up, guys, we have a problem, and we've got to fix this”.... Then from there, all this communication showing their medical people how to organize things.... The vets don't have to go through the medical system there, or if they go through it, they don't have to pay to get the guy to shovel their.... So they're going to be gaining money in their own reserve because they're not using their own money to help a veteran. We're getting money from where we're supposed to be getting on the programs. That's what we're talking about right now.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

Mr. Sheffield.

[Scott Sheffield]

I think, from my perspective, that the first one is getting together around a table and talking with different stakeholders. One of the things that has too often been the case in indigenous administration in Canada is the government making decisions and rolling out programs without asking or talking to indigenous peoples.

You know what? Including status Indian and other veterans in the Veterans Charter was, for that time, a remarkable act of inclusivity and equality, except no time was taken to consider the potential ramifications if you don't fit that mainstream rural or urban, Anglo-Saxon, or at least European, background.

Just the act of doing what you're doing now is a hugely important step in the right direction. What are the differences? How do we close the gaps? Where are the gaps? Where do the bridges need to be built, and how can we help? Are there special programs, or are the existing programs adequate if we can find ways to effectively enhance their delivery and make them more culturally attuned?

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

We know there are all kinds of new programs and benefits that have been put in place over the years. Most people don't know about them. I suspect it's even worse, as you said.

Mr. Chairman, how much time do I have left?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

You have 45 seconds.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I guess now the question I would focus on is this: in this summit or whatever you want to call it, would we bring the non-reserve with the reserve? What would be the conversation around that piece?

[Scott Sheffield]

Do you want to answer that one?

[Danny Lafontaine]

That would be a hard one, I'm telling you, especially in Quebec.

I know that there's a lot of stuff being done in Ontario with the Métis. There's a lot of good stuff being done there and on the west coast. However, like you're saying, even in Ontario and all that—because I travel a lot and they say that there are no Métis that exist from Ontario to the east—there's a lot of change we have to do in that way too, but we won't change that. It will probably last another hundred years.

What you're talking about is having timelines—not just talking—saying, “We have to do this before this date, and we have to do this before this date,” and then just keeping on going at it and getting it done.