Veterans Affairs Committee on May 22nd, 2018

[Robert Thibeau]

No, it's first nations, Métis, and Inuit, so indigenous.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

It's for indigenous. Okay, sorry.

In communicating with chiefs and councils in Saskatchewan, we hear that there is a disconnect, even within first nations reserves, with regard to knowing what's available for their veterans or working with their veterans to connect with organizations like yours or with the Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans' Association to get that information.

The Legion has service managers who work on communicating. Is that something you would see as valuable if VAC were to equip your organizations with that communications tool?

[Robert Thibeau]

It could work. The Legion has service officers. If you're lucky and fortunate, you have a service officer who has actually served and who understands what the benefits are and understands everything else that Veterans Affairs offers. Some do, some don't. The majority of them, I hope, do.

The Legion is a fallback. We support the Legion as well, and they support us.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's a good thing.

The whole question, though, is that you're saying there isn't that connection and you're suggesting it needs to be an individual from VAC who makes the effort to actually go face to face with these individuals and do the travel. I know that in terms of the issues you're talking about, in rural Saskatchewan, even veterans who are not part of the indigenous community have exactly the same issues. They have to pay to travel, to go to Saskatoon or to Regina. They may be reimbursed, but that's a process in itself, and then it's out of pocket for a lot of people who cannot afford that out-of-pocket expense in the first place.

That used to be different, so I don't know....

[Robert Thibeau]

You're absolutely right. It's not only the indigenous veterans who are in some of these areas, but I would say the percentage is higher in the indigenous communities than anywhere else. It's like a Newfoundlander wanting to go back home to the little community where she is from, and there is nothing there. In order to access those benefits in Newfoundland, she has to go to St. John's.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Right.

I've noticed in my riding that a significant portion of our cadets and our reservists are first nations indigenous people. What do you think is the motivation in that?

[Robert Thibeau]

For Saskatchewan, probably the best answer I can give you is Bold Eagle. The Bold Eagle program is now almost 30 years old. It's the Cadillac of the three indigenous programs they run. It's a six-week program for basic military qualification. It is very well supported by all of the chiefs in Saskatchewan. It started off as a Saskatchewan initiative and then spread to western Canada.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

A lot of things happen that way.

[Robert Thibeau]

Oh, yes.

It started with maybe 30 or 40 kids. When General Leslie was the army commander, he pushed that. I think they're up to about 120 each summer. The difference is that the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations pays for the cultural side of things in the program.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you. That's excellent.

You mentioned your cultural camps. Are they available in Saskatchewan as well?

[Robert Thibeau]

At Bold Eagle they are.

I attended theirs. They do the same thing, and that's why, when I got out and decided to offer that when the new programs came in, that was the starting point.

I don't teach it. I'm a teacher. I know a lot about indigenous.... I can educate anybody, but I need traditional elders to teach the traditional culture, and they do it extremely well.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I hope we get to talk again.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

We'll end this round with Mr. Fraser. He has one question and then we'll get the next group in.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

Mr. Thibeau, I have a question relating to engagement of families in indigenous situations. In the last study we did on barriers to transition, we heard over and over again, as a theme throughout our work at committee, about the importance of engaging family members to support veterans.

Is there anything specific you could recommend that would help engage families of indigenous veterans and that's not happening right now?

[Robert Thibeau]

I'll go back to my culture camps, because for some indigenous people—not all—there's a great deal of emphasis that they place on their culture.

You have somebody standing at the door going out from the military, somebody who spent 20 years, 25 years, or whatever, and he walks out the door. He may have had his wife at the SCAN seminar, but the SCAN seminar doesn't touch anything about culture.

The first time I ran a sweat lodge in Borden, I had two young infantry corporals from the RCR, and believe it or not, one was Palestinian and the other one was Iraqi. I couldn't believe it, but they were my storemen and they were looking after the troops. They had watched what was going on with the elders and the students, and the day the sweat lodge came, they came up to me and asked if they could do the sweat lodge, too. I said yes, by all means.

Those two guys were exposed to having their friends killed in Afghanistan. They were on the front lines in Afghanistan, and they had lost some close friends. The first guy got out of that sweat lodge and he had tears in his eyes when he came over, and he thanked me for allowing him to go in there. He said he had never experienced anything like it in his life.

The second guy came out, and he said he didn't know what was going on in there but before the door was closed, he felt people moving around him. And he said nobody was there. Everybody was inside. So I told him to go talk to the elder. I didn't want to get involved in that.

In Yakima, Washington, they have a week of culture camp, where they take veterans and their families. What my culture camp is designed for is to ground people back to mother earth. If somebody invites you to a sweat lodge and the sweat lodge is already built, what have you learned? Zero. The only thing you learned was what took place inside the sweat lodge. A veteran down in Washington state was having major problems with PTSD, and he went back to his community under the guidance of his elder. His elder had him for four days. They talked. He cut wood. He cut the wood that was going to be used to construct a sweat lodge. They went through the teachings, understood everything to do with the sweat lodge.

It's not the fact of going to a sweat lodge. It's the fact of going out, understanding what mother earth is all about, leaving the cellphones, leaving the computers, leaving all those things that are negative and that take away from what it is.

Is there a culture? A promising thing that can be done, if the will is there, is to have these indigenous people and their families...because the family has been side by side through everything that has gone on. Maybe there was only one family member deployed, maybe two were deployed. This includes the children. Everybody is affected by what that service was.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you, and that, unfortunately, ends our time for today.

On behalf of the committee, Mr. Thibeau and Mr. Bertrand, I'd like to thank both of you, and if there's anything else that you can add to help us in our journey of travel, please give that information to our clerk and she will give it to the committee.

Again, thank you very much, both of you.

We'll pause for a minute to bring in our next panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I'd like to welcome to the committee Brigadier-General Paul, Chief of Staff of Canadian Forces Intelligence Command; Colonel Mackay, Director of Army Reserve; Warrant Officer Greyeyes, Aboriginal Adviser to Commander, Canadian Army; and Warrant Officer Tetrault-Hamel, indigenous adviser to the chaplain general.

Welcome today.

We're going to start with Brigadier-General Paul.

Thank you for coming today.

[Brigadier-General J.J.M.J. Paul, Chief of Staff, Canadian Forces Intelligence Command, Department of National Defence]

Mr. Chair, and committee members, I am Brigadier-General Joe Paul, Jocelyn Paul.

I joined the Canadian Forces in 1988. I was born and raised on the Indian reserve of Wendake, just north of Quebec City. I am a status Indian and I am also a member of the Huron-Wendat Nation.

I would like to offer my colleagues the opportunity to tell you where they are from and what's their background.

[Master Warrant Officer Grant Greyeyes, Aboriginal Advisor to Commander, Canadian Army, Department of National Defence]

Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Grant Greyeyes. I'm a master warrant officer in the Canadian Armed Forces. I am the indigenous adviser to the commander of the Canadian Army, who is the champion for indigenous peoples within the Canadian Armed Forces and the defence team. I come from the Muskeg Lake Cree Nation, Saskatchewan, and I've been in the military for 35 years.

[Warrant Officer Moogly Tetrault-Hamel, Indigenous Advisor to the Chaplain General, Department of National Defence]

I'm Warrant Officer Tetrault-Hamel. I'm the indigenous adviser to the chaplain general within the Canadian Armed Forces. I've been in the military for going on 18 years and I am a member of the Abenaki Nation.

[Colonel T.E.C. Mackay, Director, Army Reserve, Department of National Defence]

Good day, my name is Colonel Thomas Mackay, Director, Army Reserve. I'm a primary reservist and an infantry officer. I've been serving for 27 years. My responsibility is to be a subject-matter expert adviser within National Defence headquarters on reserve issues, both primary reserve and Canadian rangers.

[BGen J.J.M.J. Paul]

As was mentioned, I'm here on behalf of the commander of the Canadian Army, Lieutenant-General Wynnyk.

Lieutenant-General Wynnyk is the champion for indigenous peoples. In his role in the Canadian Armed Forces and the Department of National Defence, he encourages indigenous peoples to consider pursuing a career with the department and the Canadian Armed Forces, or the CAF.

In order to achieve his mandate, the Commander of the Canadian Army invests himself in the employment equity cause, by fostering a representative and equitable workforce and a welcoming workplace for indigenous peoples. He contributes to the corporate culture change and promotes different indigenous programs offered by the Department of National Defence, or DND, and the CAF. To help him with his mandate, our commander is supported by an aboriginal advisory group. Two of those advisers are present with us today.

We noted the indigenous culture within the Canadian Armed Forces. To achieve our indigenous representation target of 3.5%, we are actively engaging indigenous communities where we know the population is much younger than the national average. In the context of an aging population, you have to keep in mind that for operational purposes this is extremely important for us.

Furthermore, we have developed over the last few years numerous training programs for our personnel. There are five different programs that were specifically created for the indigenous population of Canada. Our oldest program is the Canadian Forces aboriginal entry program, introduced in 1997. This is a pre-enrolment program that provides a limited experience of military service to the participants. It is essentially a pre-recruit training course that includes military training, physical fitness training, and career guidance. If successful, the candidates, the graduates, are offered the opportunity to enrol in the Canadian Armed Forces. This program is offered three times a year. Two serials are conducted in Saint-Jean, Quebec, and there's an additional one conducted at the naval fleet school in Halifax.

The second program is the aboriginal leadership opportunity year, known as ALOY.

we refer to it as the ALOY.

The ALOY was first offered in 2008 at the Royal Military College of Canada, in Kingston, Ontario. Participants are enrolled for one year as officer cadets and given a highly positive educational and leadership experience. The program is based on four pillars: academics, military, physical fitness, and culture. At the end of the year, ALOY officer cadets are granted the equivalent to basic military officer qualification and they may apply to continue at the college.

The Canadian Armed Forces have also implemented three summer programs at the end of which young indigenous people may join the army or the navy primary reserve. These programs are offered in the east, the west, and on the Pacific coast.

The first one and probably the most well known is Bold Eagle. It is designed for indigenous youth from western Canada and was first conducted in 1989. This course is offered every summer at Canadian Forces Base Wainwright in Alberta. The second summer program we offer was first conducted in 2003, and it is led by the Royal Canadian Navy. Named Raven, it is offered every year at the Naval Fleet School Pacific, in Esquimalt, British Columbia. The third summer program we have is named Black Bear. It was first conducted in 2009. This program is led by the Canadian Army, and it's being delivered every year during the summer at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown in New Brunswick.

We have had so much success over the last few years with these three programs that the Canadian Army is planning on creating two new, similar programs in Quebec and Ontario. We're aiming at starting in 2019.

Now I'm going to talk a little more personally at this point.

Over the last 30 years, I've seen a lot of positive change in terms of indigenous cultural awareness within the Canadian Armed Forces and the department.

We can certainly look at indigenous communities as a pool of recruits, but they have so much more to offer, in terms of their potential and contribution.

Against the backdrop of an aging population, I see indigenous communities as a pool of recruits that the Canadian Armed Forces cannot ignore, especially given the serious economic and social challenges many communities face, remote ones in particular. To my mind, it is an extremely beneficial union, both for candidates and these young men and women.

When I am addressing the new graduates on any indigenous program, I always like to talk about how they will grow personally but also professionally by joining our institution. The personal, leadership, and technical skills they will be acquiring will enhance their communities when they go back to them.

The other idea I like to convey all the time is that when you join the Canadian Armed Forces you're gaining two extended families. Personally, I'm very closely tied to my family back on the reserve, but I do see that as a great opportunity to have the second family, the Royal 22nd Regiment family, the army family, the CAF family, that I can relate to. I can always tap into both, depending on my personal needs. Actually, I would offer to you that after close to 30 years of service, half my friends are the people back in the community and the other half are the people back in the CAF. It has been a privilege to serve in uniform.

For all of us here at the table, every single time we go to Saint-Jean or to Wainwright to address these young men and women who are going through these summer programs, we always like to give them a bit of encouragement. We like to showcase ourselves as a success story, if I can say that. Very often these young men and women only need that little additional push to join because, let's be honest, to join the CAF is something that can be a bit intimidating.

The other aspect I like very much about our indigenous program as well is the cultural aspect of it. A lot of our youth are struggling with their own personal identity. Who are they? Where do they fit? Many of these young men and women, even some of those who were born and raised on the reserve, do struggle with their personal identity. Built into this program we always have that cultural component.

A lot of our youth can sometimes have a real interaction with an elder, when they are signing up for the first time or when they are undergoing this program. A lot of our communities have been extremely Christianized. My community was Christianized three centuries ago. A lot of our traditional knowledge has disappeared over the last generations so very often our people are first introduced to traditional ideas and concepts when they go through these programs. In that regard, I would like to highlight that our elders are doing a fantastic job.

Another important aspect of this program relates to self-esteem. Earlier, I mentioned social and economic challenges, but challenges also exist around identity. Joining the ranks of the Canadian Armed Forces often helps give youth another view of their indigenous identity. It helps put a much more positive spin, if you will, on a potentially negative view of their identity.

I would also like to highlight for the committee members how diverse indigenous communities are. We hear a lot about how diverse Canada is, as a whole, but one-size-fits-all solutions and policies will not work for aboriginal communities.

Communities in eastern Canada were in contact with the first Europeans to come here more than 300 years ago. Communities in the Arctic met the first Canadians about 75 years ago. Some communities still commonly speak their aboriginal languages, while others have lost their languages completely.

Some communities live in urban settings. My community was in the middle of the forest when the Jesuits founded it some 300 years ago. Quebec City joined us, if you will recall. Communities became settlement-based about a half-century ago, and indigenous peoples started leaving their communities for cities. As you can appreciate, then, our communities are extremely diverse.

I would like to conclude by pointing out that all of the programs in place share the aim of building bridges between indigenous communities and the Canadian Armed Forces, so that indigenous peoples feel encouraged to pursue a career in the CAF.

Guided by the indigenous people in uniform, mentored by our elders, inspired by our ancestors who have always defended this country, and supported by all the members of the Canadian Armed Forces, we hope we can guide and reassure these young men and women who are about to embrace a unique and demanding career.

Thank you for inviting us to appear today. It's much appreciated. We are here to answer any questions you may have. I would like to highlight that any question specific to the ranger program should be directed to Colonel Mackay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you for your testimony.

We'll start our five-minute rounds with Mr. Kitchen.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

General, Colonel, Master Warrant Officer, thank you for your service, and thank you for being here today to discuss this important issue with us.

General, you talked about family, and we've talked many times in committee about family in the military. I come from a military family. I grew up and lived for many years on bases around the world travelling with my father, so I consider myself to be part of that family, having been an officer cadet with the PPCLI, and my brother and sister as well.... Many in this room have family in the military. That's an important aspect to indigenous life as well, as you mentioned.

I'm wondering if you can expand on some of those comments about how you integrate in the forces. Do you educate in the sense of providing indigenous cultural training to all members of the forces such that when they encounter that, they're aware of those aspects and hope to blend with the forces?