Veterans Affairs Committee on June 14th, 2018

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

It should be the same, but would you agree it would be something we should be doing?

[Randi Gage]

Yes.

[Brian Black]

Definitely. The culture should be acknowledged, but it should not be any different for any veteran coming in or out.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Okay.

[Randi Gage]

Because it's no different going in.

I know, and I see your doing this. See, this is one of the issues when you bring aboriginal people in to give you the information you need: it's “sst, sst”.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

He was looking at me, though.

[Randi Gage]

Yeah, well....

Anyway, you need to keep that in mind when you're doing these things. I'm here until four o'clock if anybody wants to continue this discussion.

As to my background, I'm a biomedical electronic engineer who got tired of machines and hospitals and putting up with doctors. I am a certified palliative care specialist who specializes in grief recovery.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Unfortunately, that ends our time for the panel. We will have to recess.

I would like to thank the panel today for everything you do for the men and women who have served and are continually serving. If there's anything you want to add, you could put it in an email to the clerk. I know, Randi, you've sent in a great summary, and that will go in our documents.

We will recess and get our next panel up. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I call the meeting back to order.

In this second panel we welcome Victor Sanderson, a veteran of Afghanistan. He is coming to us by video conference from Saskatoon.

From the Métis Nation British Columbia, we have Lissa Smith, vice-president and Minister for Veterans, along with Tanya Davoren, director of the ministries of health, sport, and veterans.

Mr. Sanderson will begin for 10 minutes.

Thank you.

[Victor Sanderson, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I'd like to thank the grandfathers and the Creator for allowing me to be here today and to have safe travel here.

From the Boer War all the way to World War II, our veterans who have fought with you have really been let down by the government and in turn have let down a lot of our people.

Throughout our time with you and before that, we had a warrior society. The warrior society looked after our people in many ways, and it's being forgotten. A great apology from Canada would be most sufficient to help us move forward as a people. By forgetting our warrior society, we're forgetting ourselves, and when we're forgetting ourselves, we don't know how to go into combat. It's one of the things that we use to move forward as soldiers.

We look toward our grandfathers for direction and for safe passage through these war-torn countries that we went to. When we came back, we had a hard time moving forward because of being put back on a reservation. We had a hard time with the Indian agents. The Indian agents had no direct link with Veterans Affairs Canada. It was a vicious cycle back and forth with them, too—the Indian agents and VAC. The ball kept getting thrown back and forth and there was no movement with our people.

Our World War II veterans started an advocacy group, which is now the Saskatchewan First Nation Veteran Association. I am a member of that association now. It has taken me a long time to get there because of all the feelings I had when I got out of the military. I felt let down and put down. There was the humiliation I went through from putting on a uniform because of the backlash of my people. My people figured that by serving Canada, I would be a traitor to my own people.

In reality, there was a bigger calling inside of me to be a warrior and a soldier for this country. It didn't matter whether it was down in the States or up in Canada. It's because of the Jay Treaty that we have served between these two countries that fulfill Turtle Island. That is what we call home. We have always called this home Turtle Island. It's not Canada and it's not the States.

When you go onto a reservation and you try to seek help from the health services, there is nothing. The health services there are very limited, and there is no help for veterans and such, so they tell us to go back to Veterans Affairs, and Veterans Affairs sends us back to Health Canada. That's still the vicious cycle that we deal with on a daily basis. When we try to get some education going, there is no such thing as education for veterans, as well, because they send us back to you guys. We fight with our traditional chiefs, but they realize that we only have less than 3% across the board and across Canada for education. On that front, Canada needs to pull up its socks and give us more funding for education for funding.

Through the Veterans Affairs association, the quality of life is non-existent. We do not have anything on reserves for help through our own people, as well as through Health Canada. We go through pain and suffering as individuals, dealing with severe chronic pain. That's one thing that I deal with as well, along with post-traumatic stress disorder. When they both kick in, it is a very vicious cycle that I go through. My body and my family pay for it dearly, and a lot of times I disappear in my own mind, but with the love from my wife.... She understands. She got educated on her own, without the help of Veterans Affairs or anything that has support for family issues. It is non-existent within Saskatchewan itself, through Veterans Affairs.

We realize this office just opened. They're probably making some strides to help us, but still there's a long way to go.

The life we have on reserve is very, very poor. A lot of our elder veterans do not have transportation to get anywhere, even to the health clinic. When they get there, they prefer to speak their language. We have four distinct societies here in Saskatchewan. It's very hard for them to actually talk to Veterans Affairs because they prefer their own language. It's the best way they can get their point across, because the broken English they have used throughout their service is no good for them and they prefer their own language. If this government can get on board and try to hire our own people through VAC, through these offices—there are nine offices across this country—we would be able to move forward in a way that we haven't done before. We're not moving anywhere. We're just going in circles. It's a vicious cycle, and we're tired of it. I am tired of it.

I went through a lot of different places across this country. I lived on different reserves. When I first got listed, I was disabled with PTSD and chronic pain. I was in Vancouver. The services there were really good, they were excellent. I was getting help. I was moving forward. I moved home because my dad was ill and I wanted to be with him for the rest of his time here on mother Earth. When I got back here, I had a home visit with one of the elderly ladies from Veterans Affairs. She came out and saw how I was living and everything else. She suggested I go with Health Canada and help myself, because her taxpayer money pays enough for everybody else on this reserve to do such things as that from Health Canada, and we should actually leave Veterans Affairs alone. That really stung me. After that, Veterans Affairs was no longer invited into my home because of all the things they have taken away from me, all the services, all because of racism. It's because I was a native guy living on my reserve. From her point of view, I was benefiting from the taxpayers' dollars, but the taxpayers do not realize that my life is important to my family, as is yours.

[A voice]

Thank you, sir.

[Victor Sanderson]

We served this country. We sacrificed everything: our lives, our livelihood, and being who we are as a distinct people. When we put on that uniform, we were all green, but I still felt and had racism directed towards me. The word “chief” did not bother me, or “wagon burner”, or other such harsh words. I've learned to adapt and overcome all these obstacles presented by racism.

I've had a hard time since I came out of the military, though, because of feeling insecure, inadequate, and ashamed, because my family did not understand who I was or what I'd become. I was more of a robot, you would actually say, because if I was given an order, I'd do it without question, without delay. That's how we were trained, to watch out for each other.

As a combat engineer, I worked in the minefields in Yugoslavia. I saw a lot of hatred there, nine hundred years of hatred of white people over there. When I came back home to my reserve, I realized that we have our own. We have three bands on one reserve. Two of them are entities because they're still on the table with Parliament Hill and Canada itself. It's a big struggle there. The hatred is very distinct, like what I saw in Yugoslavia. The hatred is very pure. If and when these land claims are straightened out, maybe someday we'll have some peace within my own community.

Life is very hard in our communities, and we are trying to find help for our veterans.

Like I said, the lady suggested to try and get help with Health Canada and Veterans Affairs in the remote communities with RNs and the nurses there. They have Telehealth now. Some of them are obsolete, but people can actually spend an extra dollar on them to help get these psychiatrists to see these younger veterans who are up in these remote communities and don't have any way of getting down. With the finances, and travelling such long distances from the remote communities, it is impossible for them to be reimbursed right away. VAC had reimbursement right away, so when you saw your psychiatrist or psychologist, you took your business card over to Veterans Affairs and they paid you right there. That's one thing that worked here in Saskatchewan.

Now I have to pay out of pocket, and I have to wait a month and a half or two months at a time to receive my money back. When that money comes back, it's returned to the person I borrowed the gas from. That still happens here in Saskatchewan and in rural Saskatchewan, where we have to do such things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you, Mr. Sanderson.

We will flip to our next panel for 10 minutes, and then we're going to come back for questions. Thank you for your testimony.

We'll begin with Ms. Smith.

[Lissa Smith, Vice-President and Minister for Veterans, Métis Nation British Columbia]

Thank you.

I'd like to begin by acknowledging the ancestors of the unceded territories that we are meeting on today: the Algonquins of Ontario. We thank them for allowing us to be visitors upon their territory to carry out this important work being discussed today.

I'd also like to thank the standing committee for extending an invitation to myself and Director Davoren to be here this afternoon to speak to the needs and issues specific to Métis veterans.

My name is Lissa Smith. I am Métis. My families come from Moose Factory, Ontario, and Red River Settlement in Manitoba, and thus my family journeyed westward. My Métis great-great-grandfather married into the Lytton First Nations. We eventually settled on Vancouver Island. There have been nine generations of my Scottish side of the family born on Vancouver Island. We've been there since the 1860s.

I'm in my third four-year term as an elected official for Métis Nation B.C. I'm presently the provincial vice-president. I've held the portfolio of Métis veterans on the provincial board for 10 years now. I began working with aboriginal veterans in 2002.

I'm honoured to be here today. With me is Tanya Davoren. She's our director for veterans for Métis Nation B.C. She is also a Métis citizen and served seven years in the reserve as an armoured crew person with the British Columbia Dragoons in Vernon, B.C. I'd like to add that she was the first woman in western Canada trained as a tank operator.

We bring regrets from our Métis veteran B.C. committee chairperson, Dave Armitt, who is away on vacation. Chair Armitt was disappointed that he was unable to attend today and be part of this presentation. He wanted to address this important subject on behalf of all Métis veterans in British Columbia. He is on a road trip with many of his colleagues at the 50th anniversary of the Canadian Airborne Regiment in Edmonton, Alberta.

Chair Armitt did want me to convey to you his deep concern for the many veterans and their families—Métis, first nations, and Inuit right across this country—who have experienced post-traumatic stress disorder that has led to taking their own lives. He offers his praise to this committee for undertaking this study on indigenous veterans and for looking for solutions to address veterans' issues such as this.

I've provided a brief background on the Métis people in British Columbia.

The Métis are recognized under section 35 of the Constitution of Canada as one of the three distinct aboriginal peoples. The Métis have been documented in B.C. as early as 1793. Today there are nearly 90,000 self-identified Métis people residing throughout British Columbia, which represents one-third of the aboriginal population in B.C.

Métis Nation B.C. is one of the five governing members that make up the Métis National Council. Métis Nation B.C. is recognized by the provincial and federal governments as the official governing body representing Métis in B.C., including more than 17,500 Métis who have applied for and been granted Métis citizenship.

One of the challenges in building services for Métis people is that the unique history and heritage of Métis people may not necessarily fit into the traditionally held understanding of what it means to be indigenous. As a result, we, as Métis people, have struggled to have our rights and our unique identity recognized.

I'll tag-team with my colleague here. Thank you.

[Tanya Davoren, Director of Health and Sport, Director of Veterans, Métis Nation British Columbia]

Thank you, Minister Smith.

To clarify, there were three other ladies on the course, but I was the first to qualify. That does make me the first Cougar tank driver in western Canada.

We're pleased to have the opportunity to share some concerns on the current issues facing Métis veterans in B.C. and to provide some solutions.

There is currently no funding available to Métis veterans for outreach, to seek veterans out. There are no health services, no veteran engagement, and no support for veterans in need or for their families.

There is also no funding for our Métis Veterans B.C. committee, for which Minister Smith is our political representative and Dave Armitt is the chair. It's a 10-person committee made up of veterans from across the province of B.C. The full MVBC committee only meets twice a year. There is no funding for regional meetings, so they can't reach out within their seven regions to work, connect, or make any face-to-face contact with veterans.

Our proposed solution is that MVBC receive funding from Veterans Affairs Canada to carry out the work of the veteran committee, which, as Chair Black from Métis Nation Ontario has said, is to do the face-to-face veteran work and veteran engagement.

We have a second issue to bring forth. We'd like to seek representation at Veterans Affairs Canada on behalf of the Métis veterans of B.C. to identify and resolve the shortcomings that exist, to act in support of Métis veterans, and as a way of secondary engagement after Métis National Council.

We acknowledge that MNBC does have a formalized structure for veterans, as do our colleagues at Métis Nation Ontario. The other governing members of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba could as well, if they were funded. We are lucky to have political leaders who advocate for Métis veterans, to make sure there is an opportunity, at least annually, to come together. As a proposed solution, we're asking for Veterans Affairs Canada to extend an invitation to the Métis Veterans B.C. committee, as well as to Métis Nation Ontario's committee.

Métis Nation B.C. is concerned about the rogue Métis and aboriginal veteran groups that claim to represent all aboriginal veterans across Canada. MNBC does not support Métis Veterans of Canada or the Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association. Métis Nation B.C. and our MVBC committee enjoy and support a friendly relationship only with the Aboriginal Veterans Autochtones, or AVA, organization.

Our proposed solution, which is in the interest of reconciliation, is that our nation be addressed separately from other aboriginal peoples and that we work with Métis National Council and our five governing members to acknowledge that Métis Nation B.C. and Métis Nation Ontario have their own Métis veterans committees. They can best meet the needs of Métis veterans in their respective provinces if properly resourced to do community outreach for Métis veterans.

We strongly recommend that the federal government, in collaboration with provincial and Métis governments and the Métis National Council, implement and fund a national strategy that supports much-needed provincial Métis veteran engagement and ensures the inclusion of Métis people within the good work of Veterans Affairs Canada.

We recommend that these funds be made available for meaningful collaboration and consultation with Métis veterans and their families at the community level to develop and implement individualized provincial plans. We also recommend that this national strategy include individualized provincial plans for the development and delivery of culturally responsive services for Métis veterans and their families that address the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual needs that arise from past, present, and future service to our great country of Canada.

[Lissa Smith]

In closing, we want to thank you for your time and for considering these points as you engage in discussions regarding the needs of indigenous veterans. We have also submitted a brief, which contains more detailed information about Métis Nation B.C. and the governing structure of our Métis Veterans B.C. committee.

In 2010, Métis Nation B.C. enacted a Métis Veterans Act that became part of our governing system. Many questions have come up as to why we wanted them to be part of the governing system. It's so that they're never forgotten and so that the work of our Métis veterans continues over the years to support the veterans of today.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

We'll begin with four-minute rounds with Ms. Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate hearing from all of you. I am the member of Parliament for Yorkton—Melville, a riding in Saskatchewan. I appreciated hearing from you today, sir, in regard to the specific concerns there.

Quite often at this committee we bring up that when people think of rural and remote, they think northern Canada, northern Ontario, or northern B.C. We in Saskatchewan don't seem to get on the charts a lot.

I think it's important to put on the record what I heard from you today, that the truth is that there is as much difficulty for our indigenous veterans in remote and rural areas in Saskatchewan as in those other areas. Would you respond to that very quickly? Is that how you see it?

[Victor Sanderson]

The health system in Saskatchewan has a long way to go with our people, with Health Canada and Veterans Affairs. Were we to get together more often with the two of them and with the health clinics across Saskatchewan and in the northern communities, we would be able to help these other veterans up north.

If we can get the Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association executives to help them move there, that's why we put them there. We rely on this association for a lot of things.

One of the things we should be pushing forward—and not just looking for money to find another way of having a meeting—is finding out how we can help these younger veterans, these Afghanistan veterans who are stuck in their houses. I was there for a long time. I was in a dark place for years myself with no help, nothing. I want to see these young people get what they deserve.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I appreciate that your concern is beyond yourself. It's for moving forward and making sure we're supplying the support and the care they need, having come home as newer veterans. Thank you for that.

We did travel across the country. We got up to Beauval, Saskatchewan, and then to B.C., Ontario, and Halifax. I find it interesting that the focus is Ontario and British Columbia. They are fairly well organized in comparison to a lot of places. In your requests to VAC, why would you not want to encourage that camaraderie and that association to grow across Saskatchewan as well as other areas?

[Lissa Smith]

The western provinces are all part of the Métis National Council. We certainly encourage other provinces.

At this time the provinces are all at different levels. I live in Victoria, B.C. We have the naval base and the air force base on Vancouver Island, so we have a high population of current serving members and young veterans.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

When we met there, we met with your association. Three different Métis associations were represented at our meeting.

[Lissa Smith]

Was that in Victoria?

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes. That's you.