Veterans Affairs Committee on Sept. 27th, 2018

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I was going to say, we have the same challenge.

You are saying things that I've been saying for years. Through spirituality, education and sport, that's how you get rid of your demons. That's how I got rid of my demons. I am honoured to know that someone else is saying the same things.

Mr. Fellows, has Mr. Sinclair taught you how to pitch so that you can carry on his legacy?

[Ruston Fellows]

Not yet.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Sinclair, you talked a little bit about the cadet program, cadets who come in in powwows. I've been with many powwows, and it's a great honour for me to go in powwows and to walk in on the grand march. I know and understand the order, and it's a tremendous thing. I still can't figure out how half of the dancers get through a whole hour of doing that and not have a heart attack.

With that said, you did talk about cadets. One of the things we've talked and heard about are the cadet programs that are being offered to indigenous first nations and some of the challenges they're having. I'm just wondering if you might be able to add some comment as to why or why not we're seeing these issues.

[Wally Sinclair]

An example is Wainwright. Every year there are about 120 or 110 registered. Say 100 will register, and 85 will make it. This year was the biggest, again, for indigenous veterans from across Canada, the north, I think as far as the Manitoba border to B.C. and up north.

In my conversations walking around, talking, introducing myself—I'm in uniform with my colleagues—and asking them about forward thinking. We live a day at a time in our traditional ways of how we pray or how we think.

On the side of concerns and that, the parents are there. The guardians and grandmothers are attending all of these graduations. That's your conversation right there. You get more from talking to the kokums and the mushums, the grandmothers and grandfathers, and the extended family than from the young man or woman. They're so proud to be there and proud to be receiving an award or something—no question. Out of respect, I always let them know I'm going to speak to grandma a little bit, and how are you doing?

We have a lot of support from Alberta and Saskatchewan. They're there full time. When they go home, I attend when they win that award. I'll go to it and be part of our Alberta society of veterans and that.

If there are concerns, they have a good team in Wainwright who dig into that and find that. They're not going to leave there with that. If they're not following that, they're going home. If they're going home, my question is, “Who's going to meet them at home?” They need help. That's where I ask the federal government to help in that capacity, be it NNADAP or any other program if it's drug related. There are triggers there, anyway. Those were some of the issues.

It's building trust with that whole group.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

One of the issues was retention in the force once they completed the program. When I was a CIC instructor I had parents come to me and say, “I'm pulling my kids out of cadets because you're not teaching them anything.”

My answer to them was always that I had two hours to teach them what I needed to teach, but what they needed was to have that same reinforcement when they got home.

Is that part of our problem? Do you have any suggestions?

[Wally Sinclair]

On retention, if they have a cadet program at home or where they're going to, sometimes they go back there; if not, they're off to a job or a career or something else. A lot of them will go home and do that. Acknowledging them is a gap in the system—not a big one. I can't really speak on each individual case that I have heard and listened to, but the lack of support for the volunteers who are coming forward and being the cadet leaders is another one.

It's put on their plate. How are they going to deal with it if they don't have the resources within the same process? We're happy they're there. There might be some there that are going to stay on. The 30 who registered for the regular forces, that's a number in itself. It's the most ever from that.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I see your Canada 150 medal from the Legion, and comrade, I congratulate you on that. Those are not given out readily. I know you've stepped forward.

You mentioned being involved in the Legion. Is there something the Legion can do that would assist other first nations along the way, as they've helped you?

[Wally Sinclair]

It's challenging. It just depends. In our Lac La Biche branch, my supervisor's 92 years old, and she's been doing this from day one. She knows every veteran in our area, in the Lac La Biche northeast corridor, as far as Saskatchewan. Her husband passed away many years ago. Wardene keeps track of everyone. We have resource people, and she knows people and contacts. This is what I'm trying to put forward in the Legion, to have more contacts like that and to support them to bring them back into the Legion. Some do show up. Some don't. I can't force them. No one can force them.

It's brought up as a topic. To what extent and how far, I don't really know. It's a very sensitive area for a lot of us. I've been a past president of a Legion, so I know part of that.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you.

For your organization, the resources you have, you mentioned food banks and the friendship centres. Is that one small part of what you deal with within your organization?

[Wally Sinclair]

It's called wraparound services.

Maybe you can expand on wraparound services for him.

[Leland MacLeod]

The concept of “wraparound services” is a loose term to refer to making sure that we provide services not only for food security but also prenatal services for new mothers, sometimes addictions services for youth, sometimes diversion services for youth who are in trouble—essentially, something for every age group. You have youth programs, which are a huge priority because there are a lot of young people who need to be engaged at an earlier age. To support young parents, there's the prenatal programs, and especially also elders' programs. This is maybe where the gap is. We have a lot of elders' programs in the friendship centre movement, but they haven't necessarily focused on military service. I know that just in driving here, we saw a guy on Bank Street having a hard time, and we said, “He could be a veteran. How would we know?”

I've seen people I've worked with on the reserves disappear. Where do they live? He had a hard time. He didn't get along with anybody, and he left. People fall off the radar. If they go overseas and have a bad tour, they come back and they leave because they're frustrated. If they have a problem with the administration, they leave.

As Wally was saying, we have to keep track of where people are and where they go. As soon as you leave the forces you're a veteran. We definitely need to track and show proper respect for those who have served, through wraparound services.

[Wally Sinclair]

That's a connection we need. As soon as they leave the forces, where do we track that? Where do we find it? That's what we're skipping right now.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Chen, you have six minutes.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Sinclair and guests who are here before us.

I deeply appreciate the sentiments you have shared today. I was particularly fond of your statement that you are not in competition with anyone, that you are there to work together because the need is so immense for our indigenous veterans.

I believe most, if not all, Canadians would and should be outraged to know that veterans, and particularly indigenous veterans, given the history of Canada's colonialism and the ongoing challenges of racism that you have pointed out, are unable to access proper culturally relevant supports and services.

I'm new to this committee, but I know that in previous meetings there have been discussions on the lack of data on access to government services by indigenous veterans.

One grand chief, Steven Ross, said in a previous meeting:

Regarding the quality of services received by indigenous veterans, the services may be there, and may be utilized by indigenous veterans, but we are unaware of the percentage of veterans accessing these services and the types of services being requested and provided.

Given the trauma experience and the trust that is needed, do you agree with such statements? What can be done to have better outreach to new indigenous veterans?

[Wally Sinclair]

I mentioned communication and how you do it with regard to this, because it seems as though everybody shows up when there's a funeral.

I will just make a side note. In my travels, I do visit cemeteries and I see who has the military thing there. That's where I find my evidence on that part of that when we didn't know they were veterans.

However, for logistics and models, I wish there was a place that was available and appropriate, or maybe something we could add on. Maybe we could monitor it and do that ourselves. We're in the communities. We're all over Canada. Maybe with resources we could collect the research we're doing and everything else. We have them, but sometimes we just lack some type of support to keep this going through all provinces within that.

I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but I've listened to the chief before and in his statement he is right.

You're on the right track. If that was something that you could share publicly and give some feedback on.... Instead of you asking me, I could ask you what you think within that, because that is what we're looking for also: a two-way conversation.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

To raise better awareness of the issues faced by indigenous veterans, education is so important. I do believe there is a lack of awareness and there can be better education around this for Canadians.

What sorts of educational initiatives do you believe are important?

[Wally Sinclair]

We were interviewing some past veterans. If you put a video up and you hear a voice you'll see, as I said, we're not paper-related. If we hear someone talking or knowing that language, that brings attention, whether it be the veteran or someone in that capacity.

It doesn't just have to be November 11, or I think now November 8. This has to be part of the school curriculum. In some areas it is, but only on November 11. Therefore, what part of social studies, or whatever, can be put into the school curriculum somehow, whether it be through the libraries or online? Everybody is doing this Facebook stuff, and so on. The communication has to improve in many ways.

Not too long ago I was here with the ministry. They were looking at a minister of languages. That would be ideal for all of this to come together and have that go forward, and have the communication in whatever language it may be, because it's needed in different ways.

As I said, we are picture people. Show a picture and it goes a long way. You get the youth and the elders looking at that and it brings back good memories—and some not so good, too, within the same thing.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

We've talked about communication. You have mentioned culturally relevant service.

Can you speak to what that looks like? What does that culturally relevant piece mean and how can it help indigenous veterans particularly?

[Wally Sinclair]

We use the words “healing” and “wellness” a lot. The friendship centres now have what we call healing camps. We have a teepee in Lac La Biche. It goes 24 hours. There are people from all over the world coming, and we share our experiences. Once a couple of veterans saw that, they said this could be our contact point. When people come, we can sit here and talk. It has everything there.

We are partners with the Alberta forestry in that. We're starting to partner with everybody and celebrate the military, and show videos and pictures and communicate in that way. People of other cultures are also coming to the table, such as with reconciliation. We have a lot of things in common to share now, and it's working; it's coming.

We all have to be patient. It's not going to be fixed overnight, or whatever term you want to use with regard to getting there, to what that looks like.

Across Alberta, everybody has a different way to celebrate and bring communications forward. In the northeast, we've done it with camps. We have healing camps in small places. It's not that everybody is sick, but can you support your partner who is there with you?

My mindset is always one day at a time. You never know what's lacking in the system, but with that one word or one voice, you'll go away and never forget. That is key in this.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Perhaps those indigenous ways of knowing and healing would be beneficial to all communities and all veterans. Thank you for sharing that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Johns, you have three minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you again for being here.

In British Columbia, the friendship centres have been struggling with lots of cuts in the last few years to their operating budgets, transfers from the federal government. It's straining the friendship centres and their ability to operate, especially the youth programs. They were totally cut, no funding for youth at all in Port Alberni.

They've been calling for long-term, stable funding just to operate core services, never mind more services. The Province of B.C. made a historic move and for the first time started partially funding the friendship centres on top of the federal transfers to fill the gap, to take some pressure off the friendship centres.

Is this something you're hearing across the the country, around the cuts and around the need for long-term stable funding? What resources would you need to support our veterans and provide new programs?

[Wally Sinclair]

In the scale that we looked at from social...within our resources and so on, they're lacking. In Alberta—no offence—we're the lowest-funded across Canada. We struggle. We create partners. We do a lot of work. We're intervening. We're shaking hands with the neighbours in Saskatchewan, and asking how they're doing it in B.C. We're communicating the big picture and focusing in our area.

I'm quite familiar with the funding cut in B.C. As part of our national agendas, we keep track of that whole area, and when we sit and meet together, we discuss this.

How are we going to fundraise? How are we going to keep the kids in school? Teachers have to be teachers, not social workers, and this is key to how we do it. As a veteran, can I come and sit in the classroom? As an elder, can I come and sit and be part of that?

They're doing it now. I know the different treaties are doing it. The Métis are doing it. We see it in our city schools. B.C. has two really good programs at capacity resources, but they're volunteers. You burn volunteers out.

The funding is needed. In terms of what capacity, we would have to look on a bigger scale in our logistics to see what we have now to expand on it. But we've been doing it all along anyway. We've been getting by from one door to the other and getting back. We ask them what they're going to do next, and they find another way to go about it. We're not going to sit on something. That's what the staff here, provincially and nationally, are good at, finding that place, wherever it is, be it monetary....

Now that the gas companies and all this in Fort McMurray, have cut down, we are suffering in our area. There are suicides. I'm sorry to say that. I've worked with a lot of them. It's sad. A lot of them are veterans who have come home, and what do they have?

But there are alternatives. We try to keep them busy in different capacities. I have a lot of partners out there who can hire this or that. I'm the side where it's “Wally, what can you do for us?” Then I'll think about it and say, “Let's go together, be a team and work on that.”

We'll bring in a government official, provincial or national, and ask them to sit with us for two minutes to hear us. We will feed you that bannock and tea and whatever. Come and sit with us, and just talk. That goes a long way, that one little sound bite of communication. People don't realize that. If you're from that federal part, it's “Hey, guess who was here today”. That gets around very fast, and it talks about our challenges of how we can support and get that support.

I'm on a lot of committees. There's a reason for that. You just ask...monetary and people-wise too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you. That ends our time for testimony today.

On behalf of the committee, I'd like to thank all three of you for coming today and thank you for your testimony. It was very well received.

We will take a recess and come back for committee business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]