Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 16th, 2018

[Gary Walbourne]

We found several things in the environment that caused that. First and foremost, it's the same with any other military member. It's the fear of not being included. If they're sick or injured, they can't perform on a patrol group and they may miss that opportunity. The thought of leaving the rangers—and you will notice this very clearly when you start talking to some of the rangers, the pride in what they do. Being part of the rangers is vitally important to them, so anything that may impact their not being able to participate is a cause for them not to come forward.

Secondarily, one of the biggest issues we've found is access to health care. Usually it means they have to come out of their community, travel thousands of kilometres and be gone for long periods of time, away from their support group, away from their families. There's some reticence to approach the Canadian Armed Forces because of that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

First, Mr. Walbourne, on behalf of the federal NDP, I want to thank you. We know that your term expires at the end of next week. We want to thank you for your service to those who are serving and to the veterans in our country and for the important work you and your team have done. We're very grateful.

In your written brief to the committee, you mentioned that 89% of the Canadian rangers your office interviewed did not know they were eligible for benefits administered by Veterans Affairs Canada. For the record and this committee, do you have any insight as to why this was?

[Gary Walbourne]

It's very simple. It's just the lack of knowledge. I don't think they've been briefed on what is potentially there in the future for them.

I keep talking about the Canadian ranger instructors. These folks are left with doing it all: all the administration, the education, the training and the patrols. There's just not enough time in the day.

I do believe that it's simply a lack of knowledge. We need to make it important that we explain what's available. I think that's going to be a better approach than waiting for them to step forward to ask.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Do you think it's a matter of the Canadian Armed Forces not making these facts known and of them not being resourced enough, basically?

[Gary Walbourne]

I think it does come down to resources.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

In terms of resources, we've talked a lot about ensuring there's representation in terms of caseworkers too.

While we've been doing this study, we've asked indigenous veterans if they feel that if they're 2.8% of the veterans who served in the military, Veterans Affairs should have 2.8% of caseworkers who are indigenous veterans, so that they could understand each other. As you know, that's part of the biggest challenge our veterans face when they're dealing with Veterans Affairs. Do you think that would be appropriate for indigenous veterans?

[Gary Walbourne]

I think that lines up with many other things we've heard. A military member who's transitioning out would like to talk to an ex-military member so that they're talking the same language.

I'm sure it would be the same for the indigenous community, but I'll go back to something a little more basic than that. Even putting policy in a language that is acceptable and available to them would go a long way. Right now, if they want to see what a policy looks like, as I said earlier, there may be members of the Canadian rangers who neither speak nor write French or English. If we're not putting it in a language in which they can consume it, I think we've lost an opportunity.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

To break down those barriers, the cultural and language barriers, obviously it's about communication tools, but also about having staff employed who can communicate with them. Would you see that as a priority that you think would be important right now?

[Gary Walbourne]

I don't know if it's a priority, but I'm sure it is something that would have a value-add to the proposition, for sure.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Do you think Veterans Affairs has failed to make the benefits known to the veterans?

[Gary Walbourne]

Well, I think we all have a part to play. At the ombudsman's office, I was quite proud to say that we published our report in five indigenous languages. I'm also sad to say that it's the first time we've done it. I think it's an opportunity for us to learn also in terms of what we can do to help this group.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

What other specific recommendations are there on how to get that 89% number down to zero? Again, I certainly do want to commend you for the five languages that you used to get your message out there. It's really important to demonstrate to the communities that you're speaking to them in their language, but are there other recommendations to get that number down to zero from 89% in terms of those who don't know about the benefits that are available to them?

[Gary Walbourne]

I'll go back again and pound on this again. I think if we're going to increase the ranger group, we need to make sure that we increase the ranger instructors group proportionately, if not faster than that. Those folks spend the time on the land with the rangers, days and days on end with the rangers, and I think that is the opportunity to educate and share information. That's one part from the Canadian Armed Forces, I'm sure, and I would refer to Veterans Affairs. I'm sure there are things we could do through Veterans Affairs. I know that they recently opened an office in Yellowknife, so there's an opportunity. There are many opportunities, but it will be up to Veterans Affairs Canada to determine how they want to educate their constituents.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

In your report on the rangers, you say that if a ranger gets injured during his or her activities it may be difficult to determine whether or not that happened when they were in service and therefore whether they can qualify for certain benefits or services. Can you identify where this ambiguity comes from and who determines whether or not a ranger is in service?

[Gary Walbourne]

Again, it goes back to the type of contract they're employed under: reserve class A, B or C. Were they on an authorized function on behalf of the Canadian Armed Forces? These things will be the primary determinants as to whether not the illness or injuries can be attributable to service. It's much the same as anyone else. Again, it's up to the Canadian rangers instructor, the only person left out there, to make sure that all that happened at the same time.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

In your report, you point out some gaps in the attention that is paid to the reporting of injuries and illnesses by the Canadian Armed Forces. What is the procedure for reporting and documenting an injury that may be related to the Canadian ranger's military service, and is it the same procedure that is followed by any other member of the Canadian Armed Forces?

[Gary Walbourne]

I'll add a few words, and then I'll just turn it over to my staff.

It is basically the same process. You have an injury and report it. We fill out a CF 98, and the commanding officer gets it and forwards it on.

These ladies were on the ground, and they can talk a little bit more about that.

[Robyn Hynes, Director General, Operations, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman]

That is exactly the process that they follow, so it's the same process that any other member of the Canadian Armed Forces would follow. Of course, it is more difficult because of the geographical dispersion of the Canadian rangers and the amount of time that each Canadian ranger instructor is able to spend in each particular community. Depending on when the incident happened, it may take some time before the actual Canadian ranger instructor is back in that community to be able to help the ranger fill out the necessary paperwork, for example.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Bratina.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks for all that. We don't keep track of your daily calendar, so I'm impressed that you visited these far off places. It enabled you to incorporate real, solid information into your report. I was pleased to bring the motion forward that we go up and have a look, in part because I feel they deserve our respect. I wonder in your meetings with those folks whether you got a sense that they feel that nobody is paying any attention to them up there.

[Gary Walbourne]

I'll speak to that, and then I'll definitely turn it over to these two because they spent many weeks on the road.

What I found when I engaged with the rangers—and I'll say it again—was a tremendous sense of pride in being a ranger. Being identified in their community as rangers is large to them. It really is a big thing. I think the reason we were so welcome is that we were there on their land at that time as their guests. I have to say that we were treated royally. They are a tremendous group of people.

I will let the ladies speak because they were actually on the ground in all of the five CRPGs across the country.

Amanda.

[Amanda Hansen-Reeder, Acting Director, Systemic Investigations, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman]

I would echo that exact sentiment. They were incredibly proud of the work they do for the armed forces, and they are proud to wear the ranger hoodie. Like Mr. Walbourne said, most of them are rangers for life, and it's really an emblem of pride for them.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Do they feel that they are far from the madding crowd and that nobody really knows what's going on?

[Amanda Hansen-Reeder]

Yes. There was definitely the sense of.... They talked a lot about the south, about policies in the south that don't apply to them. They refer to it a lot as “us versus the south”. That was definitely something that came through.