Evidence of meeting #16 for Veterans Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was family.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
A voice
You're all invited.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
For the sake of Monsieur Desilets, I have to step in.
You have one minute left, sir.
5:15 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Mr. White, you didn't answer my question.
Why isn't the government listening to you? You have all the knowledge, expertise and experience needed.
You're an emotional man, so don't hold back.
5:15 p.m.
Lieutenant-Commander (Retired), As an Individual
It's very frustrating.
We just give up. We try and we try and we try and we give up. Hopefully we have an Andy Fillmore or a Heather MacKinnon or a John Whelan out there somewhere, but then, when we go over the top, if you read some writings of Franz Kafka, who says rightly that he just couldn't take it anymore, then the system kicks into high gear and says, “Where did we go wrong?”
Tracy and Sean Bruyea can tell you where it's going wrong now before there's another regrettable casualty.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Dr. MacKinnon, I'll come to you. Of course we've heard caseworker testimony from back when they talked about having too many people on their lists, a lot of burnout, not being able to make decisions and having to go up the chain and how frustrating and time-consuming that is. We have definitely heard from them what those challenges are.
I am wondering about two things from you, since this is a study specifically on caregivers. What are the impacts on caregivers when we have veterans who are constantly having to retell their story to new case managers when staff are changing all the time? Then there is the fact that caregivers cannot have their own case manager and what the challenges are.
Could you just talk about that and the impact of the caseworkers on the caregivers?
5:20 p.m.
Physician, As an Individual
Really, there's not much help for caregivers now. As we said, there is only one criterion where caregivers get help, which would be for spouse and children under 25. That is, if the veteran gives permission, is recognized [Technical difficulty—Editor] and has a case manager, they can get help, but if you take any other situation where that veteran doesn't fit into that criteria, there is nothing, and there is so little for families.
There is just so little for the abused wife who just sits at home and gets abused, or the wife who is dealing with a husband who is living in a basement with cameras around the house and neighbours complaining because they think he's going to come out and shoot people or something like that. There's nothing for these people, and we just have to get to them and help them, and it may not always happen through a case manager, but we have to look at the families very closely.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you.
Mr. White, if I can close with you, you talked earlier about how much work it is for a veteran and their caregiver to search continuously for supports and programs instead of having that one-stop place where they can go.
Just tell us about the impact—I think about your wife—without having that accessible service.
5:20 p.m.
Lieutenant-Commander (Retired), As an Individual
My caregiver? I'll call her a caregiver. Since I sat down here, my caregiver has given me this glass of water, and she has brought me this box of Kleenex. Clearly, I have a better caregiver than Bruyea. Also, when this conversation is over, she's going to spend the next two hours talking me down from how wound up I am as a result of participating in this.
You can google “roast Peter Stoffer” or “Peter Stoffer roasted”. I was the MC of that roast. I put body armour on him and gave him a name tag that read “Stoffer PD”, and I picked a trade for him—“SD1”. That stood for “shit disturber 1st class”. Pardon the vulgarity, but that's what we need. We need people to go into the corners after the puck. We need people to say that not only is the veteran spiralling out of control, but he's dragging down with him somebody who he stood up with in front of 150 people and who he said he would love until he was dead. He's dragging her or him down with him. That's the problem.
Now, I realize that we're standing at the bottom of a mountain looking at the top, and it's going to be a very tough job to get there. We had the one-stop shopping that Sean was talking about. It was called the Stadacona Hospital, and everything a veteran needed was all in one building. They gradually....
Sorry, Mr. Chair.
Just get in corner after the puck and, above all else, pick up the phone and take the time. It's empathy, as Tracy said. Just empathize. I don't want your sympathy. I want your empathy.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Gerry, I have to tell you that when I'm in Nova Scotia you and I are going to get together for a beer, because I'd love to spend more time with you, other than having the chair just cut you off, although that's his job and he has already acknowledged that.
Dr. Whalen and Dr. MacKinnon, I don't want to take up too much time here, but we've heard the stories. We've heard Ms. Evanshen's stories and we've heard Gerry's story about his wife. You've done studies. You've been in the trenches.
Is this symptomatic of and consistent with what you've heard over the years? How do we fix it?
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
Yes. First of all, these are consistent stories. [Technical difficulty—Editor] give us some recommendations on how we move forward here, because this is going to be an important part.
5:25 p.m.
Physician, As an Individual
You need more people. That's the bottom line.
You need more people in Veterans Affairs. You need more people at that level, not higher up. At that level, focus on putting the policies together, getting these people and getting them out seeing the people. That's the level we need to get this done.
5:25 p.m.
Lead Psychologist, Whelan Psychological Services Inc.
Yes, I would agree. We need more case managers, and case managers who are not so inundated with files that they can't assess the families. Also, we need to move past this ideology we have that it is the veteran only. It is not the veteran only. It is everybody that is close by.
Also, yes, these stories today are all too familiar for me as well.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
Thank you.
That's all I have, Chair, unless Ms. Wagantall wants to take up the rest of my time, but I do have a notice of motion that I would like to put on the floor.
Mr. Chair, you're aware of that, so I think we can do that after we're done. Do you want me to do it now?
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
Okay. Well, I do have time.
Based on some of the discussion today with Mr. Bruyea, I believe that he has some pretty relevant information [Technical difficulty—Editor] I'm going to put the following notice of motion to the committee, and that is:
That the committee invite Sean Bruyea, Allan Hunter, Tina Fitzpatrick and the Veterans Ombudsperson, Col (Ret.) Nishika Jardine to brief the committee on the VAC mental health care programs, for one meeting no later than April 14th, 2021.
The clerk has that in both official languages, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Mr. Brassard, do you wish to move this motion today or are you just putting it on notice?
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
I'm just putting it on notice, Mr. Chair. We're going to deal with it at a later time. I just wanted the committee to be aware.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
I will have the clerk distribute the motion, and that is perfect timing.
Thank you.
