Veterans Affairs Committee on May 5th, 2021

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses.

With five minutes, I'm probably going to get a chance to pose only a couple of questions. I want to acknowledge the work you do.

The Association of Federal Retirees certainly has an active chapter here in Prince Edward Island. I would say that would be due in large part to the number of retirees from the national headquarters of the Department of Veterans Affairs. You're probably aware that there's only one federal government department that has its national headquarters outside of the national capital region. Both the employees and the retirees are extremely important to our province and to our economy. Thank you for the work that you do. Your chapter is alive, well and active here in Prince Edward Island.

To our guests from Halifax, the Battle of the Atlantic is also something that is commemorated here in Charlottetown each and every year. The fellow who keeps it together is an air force guy, if you can imagine, by the name of Dan Miller. In recent years, there's been a marked increase in the level of participation of that particular commemoration.

Honestly, I am going to pose a question. It's for you, Mr. Gregory. Before I do, kudos to you, sir, as a civilian and a businessman to be so passionate about commemoration and those who gave their lives.

If I can get out of a standing committee obligation tomorrow, I will be attending a ceremony where there will be the Canadian Forces Medallion for Distinguished Service. As you would know, it's an honour presented by the military to people like you who aren't members of the service but who work so hard in support of them. Also there's the fact that you're an honorary colonel. This is something that I know is reserved for only the most dedicated and upstanding supporters, and we've all seen that here.

The work that you're doing and the way you've laid it out is absolutely impressive. I have two questions for you, but I'm probably only going to be able to get one in.

You talk about the march and the International Forum on Peace, Security and Prosperity and the commemoration of Operation Husky along with the march. Can you talk about the level of federal support you have received for each of the three initiatives? What else could and should we be doing?

I take your point with respect to collaboration and that it should be rewarded. I think that each of the projects you mentioned deserve support on their own merit. Could you talk about that, please?

[Steve Gregory]

First of all, thank you for asking the question.

I'll tell you, I'm doing everything I can to make sure I ask Veterans Affairs for only what I absolutely need. It's my belief that we can engage Canadians and, by engaging them, pull them in to make them feel useful and take their money. I mean that. When people send $100 or $150, they have a higher interest in participating, so I'm not shy about that.

On Operation Husky, you know, I had to raise over $648,000, and 157 Canadians paid close to $5,000 to come and be in this cemetery with me at the same time. But the CBC didn't do a documentary for us; RAI did, the national broadcaster of Italy. It produced a 22-minute documentary that focuses on the Canadian contribution to Operation Husky. That plays four times a year. We have nothing like that in Canada, so Veterans Affairs could step up in a big way to help me.

I will be asking them—and believe me, Veterans Affairs has been very, very generous to me. When I ask, we get. For instance, in 2013, they gave me $62,000, which I paid to UNB to produce a booklet. I'm now asking them to help me make a contribution to Canadian history, which is a unique book. Three Canadian authors and three Sicilian authors will be producing the history of each day of the battle from both perspectives, showing the cost of war in civilian terms. We think that will be very effective.

The signs are costing us 40,000 euros. I've virtually guaranteed to pay for those, but, man oh man, could it ever.... That could be really helpful.

For the commemorations in 2023, for the stage alone, where.... In 2013, we paid for everything. Veterans Affairs came, and the minister came, but we paid for everything.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

[Steve Gregory]

Just for the stages at the cemetery and where we had our concert in front of 4,000 people—those kinds of costs were $10,000 here and 20,000 euros there. We'll stretch every nickel. This is why I say it's important for the future to leverage these organizations that have roots in foreign countries. Whether it's Juno Beach Centre, which is a great outfit, or it's Valour Canada in Canada, leverage these organizations that function predominantly with volunteers. Anybody who works with me is a volunteer, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Mr. Gregory. I'm sorry but I have to interrupt you here. I do want to try to get to at least—

[Steve Gregory]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

—the next few questions, and we do have to wrap up soon.

MP Desilets, go ahead for two and a half minutes, please.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Harris.

Each conflict is important, and every involvement of the Canadian Armed Forces deserves to be known, valued and highlighted.

Now, clearly, some conflicts have a greater place than others in what could be called the “great national story” for Quebeckers and Canadians.

In your opinion, are some conflicts forgotten or underestimated when it comes to commemorations?

[Dr. Steve Harris]

That's a difficult one to answer.

I think I would say that, as of today, everything that has happened since Korea has probably been undervalued and under-recognized. I'm not sure why that has been the case. Perhaps it is because it certainly hasn't been as dramatic as the two major world wars and Korea. I think, going forward—although I'll agree with Sammy that the categorization of conflicts as it relates to the provision of benefits may be one thing, but I would be very hard pressed to say that the Middle East was more important than Cyprus or more important than service to the Geneva accords or Laos, Cambodia or Vietnam.

Commemoration is meant to honour service and sacrifice, and every deployment involves service and sacrifice. The numbers may be greater for some than for others, but it's the principle of service and sacrifice, and I would not want to be put in a position of ranking. It's the recognition of service and sacrifice wherever they have been that is key.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Let me pick up on your idea. My uncle lost his life in the Korean War. I have been running around looking for commemorations that could exist, but not finding a great deal. My father never spoke about it, even though he knew.

Perhaps Mr. Sampson would like to answer that question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm afraid you're well over time, Luc. I'm sorry. I was trying to sneak both you and Rachel in at the end, so bear with me.

MP Blaney, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I will follow up with you, Mr. Sampson. You said some very powerful things in your testimony today. You talked about things like no recognition for special duty; how it is defined really has an impact; and Rwandan vets receive 40% less than other vets for their pension.

I'm wondering if you could talk about what type of recognition you think is important. I think what you said is incredibly powerful: I don't want to go to recognition unless I'm with the people I served with. I think that's an important thing for us to hear. What kind of commemoration would be powerful, and what things have to go hand in hand with that?

[Kevin Sammy Sampson]

Thank you very much for the question, Ms. Blaney. I'll just answer Mr. Desilets' question first.

The Rwandan mission went missing from the Government of Canada and from National Defence for 25 years. It's impossible that we served under General Dallaire and nobody knows anything about what we did. It was to the point where trauma was increasingly difficult for Canadians, because they would try to communicate what their stories were, and in some cases they were called liars, because there was no history within DND. We've discussed it with Dr. Harris. We're going to work together with Dr. Harris to fix that.

Mr. Desilets, I was on a small mission in Iran in 1988. There were only 250 Canadians who were on that mission in Iran. That's just another example. We don't hear about these missions because they're small.

I do agree with you, Dr. Harris, that the ranking of missions is absolutely out of the question, but definitely we do need to....

Mali was not a peacekeeping mission. Mali was a United Nations chapter 7 counterterrorism mission. ISIS did not invite Canadians to come for peacekeeping, which is a requirement. How can you call that a peacekeeping mission unless you're trying to placate Canadians who want to do peacekeeping?

Ms. Blaney, having that accuracy is important to veterans, as is having that camaraderie that has to be in everything we do once we become veterans. Anything with camaraderie that involves Canadians so that they can transparently and openly understand what we've done in these missions around the world is very beneficial psychologically to us because we have an opportunity to speak, but also to Canadians.

My family doesn't even understand what I've been through, because the Government of Canada fails to write anything about our missions. That's a fact.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That will have to be the last word.

I thank the members of the committee for their indulgence. I am a little late today, but we did start late, so I do appreciate that. I wanted to give everyone a fair shot at questions.

To all our witnesses, thank you very, very much for being here today and contributing to this study. I think the fact that I had to interrupt a few of my colleagues and a few of you shows that we could probably go another hour and continue with questions. There's a lot on this topic, and I think we'll have some very fruitful discussions as we proceed.

Colleagues, the next meeting will be on May 10. That will be the last meeting on commemoration.

Thank you to all the folks in Ottawa who help us all be heard.

I adjourn the meeting for today.

Thank you very much, everyone.