Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 20th, 2022

[Paul Ledwell]

No, the minister does not.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Why not?

[Paul Ledwell]

The minister is not in a position, and frankly other senior people in the department aren't in a position, to engage directly on files and interactions between the veterans and those who are established in our department to professionally engage and support those veterans. The minister doesn't know the name, the identity or the location of the veteran. I don't know the name or the identity of the veteran either.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Is a veterans service agent the same as a case manager?

[Paul Ledwell]

No, they're not. Case managers work with 14,000 or 14,500 veterans who have complex issues and who are identified as requiring intensive case management. Veterans service agents work with veterans who have less complex issues and needs, and that was the case in this situation.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Which union represents veterans service agents?

[Paul Ledwell]

I'll refer that to my colleague Mr. Harris, but I think it's our Union of Veterans’ Affairs Employees, or UVAE.

[Steven Harris]

That's correct.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Has the union taken a position on this case?

[Steven Harris]

In this case, it is the Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees for our veterans service agents.

[Paul Ledwell]

The union has not taken a public position on this case.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

We've often heard that it's difficult if not impossible within the federal public service to terminate an employee. It's something that happens without a great deal of difficulty in the private sector, I can tell you. I've done it myself.

Is it true that it's almost impossible to terminate an employee in the public service? If the answer is “no”, then just how hard is it?

[Paul Ledwell]

That's a very good question. I have not had experience in having to undertake a termination, quite honestly. I know that there are union agreements or collective agreements that guide all of our relationships with our unionized employees. We follow those very closely. Those contain guidelines and rules by which employees are to function and by which employers are to function. We undertake all of our labour relations in those contexts.

[Steven Harris]

I would add, if I may, that it is not impossible to fire or release an employee in the federal public service, as you've noted, but there are rules that govern that—labour relations processes, collective agreements and policies that come from our chief human resources officer.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you. Those are my questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Casey.

I invite Luc Desilets to make a short comment.

Mr. Desilets, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ledwell, was this employee suspended during the investigation?

[Paul Ledwell]

I cannot give specifics on this employee, as there are rules to follow. However, I can say that this employee currently has no contact with veterans.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

We take this investigation seriously. In my opinion, this information should be made public.

Is the union protecting this employee currently?

What is the union doing to protect this employee?

[Paul Ledwell]

I don't know if the union has been involved, but Mr. Harris may have more information on that.

The union represents all employees, not just this one.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I understand.

[Paul Ledwell]

Mr. Harris, has the union made any formal commitments?

[Steven Harris]

I don't have any details on that at the moment.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That's fine.

Can either of you tell me how an investigative committee like this is set up? Who is on it?

[Paul Ledwell]

The minister asked me to lead the investigation. As assistant deputy minister, Mr. Harris is responsible for that whole part of the department. He gives me the report and the information on the investigation. I then pass it on to the minister.