Evidence of meeting #22 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was veteran.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Mr. Ledwell.
Thank you, Ms. Blaney.
Let's go to a second round of questions. It is the last one with the minister.
I will start with Mr. Fraser Tolmie for five minutes, please.
October 20th, 2022 / 4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for joining us today.
Mr. Minister, you stated earlier that you've been around politics for a very long time, and I think you would probably agree with me that politics is a performance-based industry.
Recently we've sat in these committees where reports from the ombudsman general auditor and the PBO and our own committee reports say that wait times for service delivery have not decreased. This has continued to go on. Now we're sitting here dealing with how the service is being delivered.
Your statement mentions training for frontline staff. I have a question about what kind of training there can be, since under the law, MAID is a discussion to be had between a physician and a patient, and your department has no mandate to be part of that discussion. This law was passed back in 2016, which the department should have been made aware of, and the department should have had policies in place.
My question to you is this: If this is an isolated incident, why is the investigation still continuing?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Thank you very much. The investigation and the training are both continuing to make sure that the frontline staff are aware of what they can and cannot do. Because of this issue, as you are fully aware, because of this happening, we have to make sure that the frontline staff are fully abreast of that.
As far as the training goes, I'm not much on the training side. If you wish, if you want to let the deputy speak to that, he can for a minute or so.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
No, that's okay, Mr. Minister, because the question that I asked was about the investigation, not about the training.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
I'll continue down this line of questioning, because the question I have is this: How do we know that it's only one employee and just one case?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
I appreciate your question and your concern. The only thing you can do as a minister is go to your deputy and indicate that there's a difficulty and that it has to be dealt with and has to be investigated. That's exactly what I did, and that is what, from my understanding, the deputy is doing and what the department is doing.
What happened in this situation, what happens with the employee or whatever down the road, and the training part to make sure that the frontline workers are fully abreast of what they can and cannot do, as we've said here before—and I apologize for repeating—the fact is that if a veteran brings up the issue, which a veteran can do, then they have to know how to deal with it.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Minister.
Veterans come from a background where there's a code that they live by. One of the continuing themes that we see in this committee is that vets do not feel valued for their service, so my question is this: How does someone who has PTSD and is facing this challenge feel valued if someone then comes to them and says, “We have a way to end your life.”
On top of that, when they bring that forward, how do they feel valued if you haven't gone to them and apologized to them?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
I only have a very short time, but the fact is that I think veterans are more respected than they have been. I've been around for a long time, as I've said, and what impresses me is the commemoration events. I don't want to do this to kill time, but the fact is, veterans are more respected and they are more thanked in this country. Years ago I was in Veterans Affairs, and you went to Europe and you saw big crowds. Now you see big crowds in Canada. I think it's only fair to say that the Canadian people truly appreciate what the veterans have done.
I agree with what you're talking about. Quite simply, it should not happen. It is wrong.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Will you apologize to that gentleman? Will you apologize to that person who brought forward that complaint, on behalf of the Government of Canada?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Well, I think he deserves that apology. Will you apologize to him?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
I apologize right now to the individual this happened to. I have no problem with that, and I think it's right to do, because that person worked hard to make sure that I can do this and you can do what you're doing with me, and I respect that, but Canadians respect that too, and we have to protect that.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Well, I think a personal apology would work, because again, we've been talking about feeling valued and devalued. I don't think doing it in this committee values that person.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Well, I appreciate your saying that and I understand your saying it, but because of the privacy aspect and the situation as it is, I can't at the moment. However, I would just love to shake hands and say to whoever the individual is that I'm sorry this happened, because it's totally inappropriate. We know that and you know that and Canadians know that.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Mr. Tolmie.
Now I'd like to invite Mr. Wilson Miao, who is on Zoom, to ask questions.
Go ahead, please. You have five minutes.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister, and thank you to your team for joining us today.
It's unacceptable. That's one thing that comes to my mind. Veterans need help. I'd like to thank you and the department, Minister, for all the work you have done for our veterans across Canada.
Maybe I can ask this question. Are there more findings on the investigation that was undertaken by the department that can be shared with the committee?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
I appreciate the question, but in all fairness, the man who's in charge of the investigation is to my left. I think it would be more than appropriate for him to explain to you just what takes place. I do not handle an investigation. He does.
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs
If I could, Mr. Chair, I would just indicate that the thoroughness of this investigation was in relation to the seriousness of the incident that occurred.
First we reviewed all of the files that were handled by this veterans service agent to see if there was any reference at all to anything similar or like this in their dealings or interactions with veterans. Second, we reviewed all the files through the department and the interactions with veterans to ascertain whether any situation like this may have occurred that was not brought to our attention.
In both those cases, we identified that there were no other cases. There was one other incident with this veterans service agent responding to an issue as it was brought forward on MAID by a veteran, but in no other instance have we found that the issue was raised proactively by a Veterans Affairs Canada employee with a veteran.
We also ensured that the veteran's file was reviewed to ensure that we were providing all the supports that were necessary to that veteran in their history in dealing with Veterans Affairs Canada.
All of that was undertaken with as much thoroughness as we possibly could to ensure that this was an issue that was identified and, as we confirmed, was isolated in the department. That does not negate or diminish the seriousness of the issue.
I think the undertaking of the investigation and the response to it is in relation to the seriousness of the particular incident.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
I would just like to say that what the committee is doing right here puts more light on how horrible this is and how unacceptable it is nationwide. I appreciate it.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you, Minister.
Mr. Ledwell, can you share a little bit more on what VAC is actually doing to help veterans struggling with mental health conditions? Can you speak a little bit more on that?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Thank you very much.
As you're fully aware, we announced a $140-million mental health program. Of course, that's so vitally important. The difference with this mental health program is that the veterans can start receiving benefits immediately upon applying. They have two years in order to work on the issue and go to a doctor, let's say, or a psychiatrist or whatever. They have two years to do this. Of course, if it's approved, they continue on, but the benefits start immediately with the $140 million.
Mental health is such a big issue countrywide, so that's a good question. It's important that veterans know that. If they deal with the issue earlier, it's much better for the veteran. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to make sure that we get the assistance to the veteran as quickly as possible. The $140 million and the immediacy of when you're able to start receiving benefits are both so important.
Thank you for the question.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal