Evidence of meeting #29 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Mr. Banks, and also thank you for your service. It's really important.
I wish you continued hope in your endeavours.
I'd like to invite Madame Christine Gauthier, for five minutes or less.
5 p.m.
Christine Gauthier Corporal (Retired), As an Individual
My service number is H76627241 and my Veterans Affairs number is 5088661. You should read my story, because it's not easy to sum up 34 years in five minutes.
I would love to understand how you can think it's a good idea, in any scenario, to subcontract services again. Services will now be provided by Canadian Veterans Rehabilitation Services Partners (CVRSP), a partnership that is in turn subdivided into two businesses, WCG International Consultants and Lifemark Health Group. Once again, these businesses will be lining their pockets.
Services were subcontracted in the 2000s to Blue Cross, and we know it doesn't work. Nothing has been improved for veterans since that time. On the contrary, the result is that the number of steps has doubled and services have been cut in half. Now you want to split them in four. I don't understand; it's complete nonsense. I don't know how you arrive at your figures. Personally, I learned that two plus two is four, but it seems that's not always true.
Am I the only one who can see that this is obviously a cut and paste of Mr. Trudeau's comments on Hockey Canada becoming Canada Hockey? We'll change Veterans Affairs or Blue Cross to CVRSP, which will again be split in two.
The contract awarded by Veterans Affairs is worth over $570 million. Do we even know how long the contract is for? Has that information been provided? Who will manage the money? What will happen to veterans services after this money runs out? I haven't heard anything about that. I never heard about any of this until I saw the news this week.
They said that there would be 9,000 new people. What experience do they have? We've talked about it before. Apparently, they are taking online upgrade modules to transition. That's a load of crap. The VAC officers, professionals and service providers have no information. This is also what I experienced at Ste. Anne's Hospital. People are being told that the information will come as the transition happens, and that will take at least six months.
In one statement, Minister MacAulay said that 100 temporary employees had been hired to help reduce the backlog. On another form, it said it was 50 employees. To me, there's a big difference between 100 and 50: 100 is twice as much as 50, and 50 is half of 100. Can we know which number it is? It's no wonder we're not able to put together programs that work.
The privatization of services simply doesn't work for Canadians in any scenario. It hasn't worked in education, it hasn't worked in health care, and it won't work for veterans either.
It took almost 12 years to get a new wheelchair. All these papers I have with me are just my active record for the last four years. You can look at all of that later, if you want.
In 2002 and 2003, my medical coverage was extended because my condition was found to be serious and very precarious. I even received a letter to that effect from the Minister of Veterans Affairs at the time, Mr. Pagtakhan. However, what happens to a letter like this after the minister is no longer in office? Does it turn into toilet paper? We don't know. I can tell you that it is of absolutely no use. In fact, I had to take new steps to start all over again.
Veterans are not clients. Stop talking to them like they are. You don't choose to be physically disabled, psychologically damaged, or emotionally or sexually scarred. That's where you are greatly mistaken. You choose to be a client at Provigo or Maxi; you don't choose clients from injured veterans. Veterans are not clients. Unification and simplicity are what works.
I've been a veteran since 1998. Back then, first, the case manager came to my house to meet with me, as well as the lawyer and the doctor. It was all done in person, directly, and that's what works. If you want to serve people, you have to work with them.
There is no scenario in which this plan will work. The only way to help veterans is through direct contact between people. We need feedback from the district and regional offices, feedback from case managers who know us, who come to us, who are in our homes and who know our real needs. We need face-to-face interaction, transparency, integrity, respect, fairness, courtesy and dignity. If you recognize those words, it's because they are all in the Veterans Bill of Rights. They are all rights written in there, but we don't have them. We veterans also have the right to be involved in discussions and services that affect us. I've had no right to do that in any of these matters.
You need to listen to veterans and determine their real needs, rather than planning for maximum, often unnecessary spending developed by subcontracted agencies and other, once again subcontracted stakeholders, and now you're going to add two more of them.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Ms. Gauthier, I'm sorry to interrupt you.
I'd just like to ask the committee members if they would agree to Ms. Gauthier continuing her speech for a few more seconds.
5:05 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
5:05 p.m.
Corporal (Retired), As an Individual
Thank you.
I will end by saying this. Minister MacAulay stated that his job was to do his job, and that's what he was going to continue to do.
I have a duty and responsibility to let you know that you have shamefully failed.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you very much, Ms. Gauthier.
I also want to thank you for your service. It's important that we hear from you, so that we can help you and the necessary corrective measures can be taken.
I'd like to invite Mr. Bruce Moncur, by video conference, for five minutes or less, please.
Please, go ahead.
5:05 p.m.
Bruce Moncur Corporal (Retired), As an Individual
Good afternoon.
I am retired Corporal Bruce Moncur.
I served in the Canadian Forces for almost a decade, during which I fought in Afghanistan and took part in the largest battle in the war, which was Operation Medusa. My company, Charles Company, fought ferociously for over two days of fighting until we were deemed combat ineffective. My platoon, the Crazy Eights, would be reduced from 40 to five in those 48 hours. After a friendly fire incident, I would sustain a life-threatening wound that would require the removal of 5% of my brain. I would have to relearn how to read, write, walk and talk.
I sit before you a mere eight weeks from finishing a teaching degree. I also started the Canadian Afghanistan War Veterans Association, and the not-for-profit Valour in the Presence of the Enemy. Each of you would have received about 50 to 100 letters about Jess Larochelle.
I am one of the original 15 veterans on the ministerial advisory board that was created in 2015. I currently co-chair the service excellence committee.
I have been a veterans advocate for over a decade, first for myself, when my lump sum pension was a mere $22,000, and now for others as we try to navigate the insurance company we call Veterans Affairs.
I have endured former Veterans Affairs minister Julian Fantino walking out on me and former Veterans Affairs minister Kent Hehr clapping as the then-CDS Jonathan Vance berated me at a stakeholder summit when I told him that not having a VAC representative present at the 10th anniversary reunion for Operation Medusa was a mistake.
I wanted to make the guys aware of the services available to them and was reduced to asking for a table with magnets and a phone number. That, too, was denied. I felt an inch tall after I has been jacked up. It was not six weeks later that one of the soldiers at the reunion committed suicide. I don't know if we could have helped him or prevented it, but I would like to have tried.
To date I have met, known or tried to help 11 soldiers who have taken their lives. You see, VAC has been offering MAID in many forms for years, but now they have gotten rid of all pretences.
It was later that I had to sit through the former Veterans Affairs minister Seamus O'Regan's speech at the Sam Sharpe breakfast, which is a breakfast in honour of a colleague of yours who committed suicide after his service in World War I. The minister would then tell a room full of veterans that he could relate to our PTSD because of his alcoholism.
It has only become worse since then.
The state of Veterans Affairs is apocalyptic—worse then I have ever seen it. In my opinion, the deliberate actions taken by the minister to put the department in such disrepair was only a means to justify the $571 million Lifemark privatization.
I am interviewed in a book written in 2015, Party of One, by Michael Harris. I joke with him about how they could have thousands of more points of contact if they put VAC material in McDonald's. I could never have imagined that my joke would become a sick reality.
Yet wait times keep getting longer.
They ignored the file so thoroughly that case manager Kevorkian could operate with impunity as an attempted serial killer using legally sanctioned MAID as her murder weapon, all under the minister's nose. He was too focused on the half a billion dollars of taxpayers' money that's going to the Weston family and Loblaws. These are the same people who were fixing the price of bread, are raising the price of groceries so families can't buy meat, and are unable to keep children's Tylenol on the shelves.
This new deal is only going to add a division between the veterans and the government.
We have seen in the past that the new implementation of services has taken years to iron out. Service Canada offices took at least a decade. The new veterans charter never worked; hence, this new deal.
In my opinion we need to look at how much it will cost to get out of this deal. If you are determined to go through with it, then what does the contract say about when Lifemark does not meet its obligations? Will you hold them accountable?
We've had nobody at the table to help us make these decisions. In the meantime, the minister must do the honourable thing and resign. He tweets more about potatoes than about veterans. The Department of Veterans Affairs must be moved back to Ottawa. I care little about the ramifications it will have for the economy of P.E.I. There is more Canadian veteran blood in P.E.I. than Afghanistan, Bosnia and Korea combined.
If the minister resigns, I have no faith in a Prime Minister who has missed over half of our Remembrance Day ceremonies.
You must call a royal commission into Veterans Affairs. Lives depend on it.
Thank you.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you so much retired Corporal Moncur.
Let's go to questions.
Members, because two of our colleagues have obligations to leave, we're going to go until 5:35. You will each have six minutes and you can split your time.
I'd like to invite, first of all, Mr. Fraser Tolmie for six minutes or less, please.
December 1st, 2022 / 5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Thank you.
When we have vets here, we normally recognize their service and say “Thank you for your service”. I want to do that, but I don't want you to think that it's just a platitude. We do not go through the experience of what you've gone through as told in your stories. What you've shared with us is sometimes very horrifying to us, and I want to let you know that we're grateful for the sacrifices you've made. We're grateful that you're here to help us provide a better service for those who are in similar situations to you, so I want to say thank you for being here today.
Mr. Banks, I'm going to ask you a question.
Do you feel abandoned by Veterans Affairs and how they've treated you recently?
5:10 p.m.
Sergeant (Retired), As an Individual
I guess it would depend on if you're asking me about the institution or the people who I work with, the practitioners.
As far as the institution goes, yes, but for the practitioners, I've worked with a number of case managers I've been assigned over the years, and they're trying. They're trying within the bounds of the system they have to operate in.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Thank you.
Ms. Gauthier, in that suitcase there beside you, are those all of your files?
5:10 p.m.
Corporal (Retired), As an Individual
No, these are just for the last four years.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Corporal (Retired), As an Individual
And you're welcome to every single sheet of them.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Mr. Moncur, with the way this contract has been rolled out, do you have concerns about the future service that vets will get, based on the way this has been rolled out?
5:10 p.m.
Corporal (Retired), As an Individual
That's correct. I serve on the service excellence committee, and this falls directly under our mandate letter.
This would have been years in the making, and not once were we told about it. In fact, the Legion member from your last round of questioning, Ms. Hughes, is also on that committee. I can tell you empathically that not once were we told about this until we heard it with the rest of the public.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Ms. Gauthier, when dealing with Veterans Affairs, what is your expectation from opening your file to closing your file? Obviously you have a lot of experience with it, and I'm not trying to be flip. I'm talking about the time it takes for a response, the time to be dealt with and time to have your file closed. What's your expectation?
5:15 p.m.
Corporal (Retired), As an Individual
It's 24 years in the making right now. None of the initial claims of the disability have been addressed yet because the bureaucracy—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Wait. I'm sorry to cut you off. Are you telling me that none of your claims have been dealt with since the beginning?
5:15 p.m.
Corporal (Retired), As an Individual
No, sir, not all of my claims in 24 years.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Okay, I'm sorry to cut you off again. Keep going.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Well, you know what? I'm kind of lost here, because I'm just appalled at what service delivery is happening here. We're seeing increased numbers—
5:15 p.m.
Corporal (Retired), As an Individual
The one thing I think you were asking as well is from the opening of the files to the resolution.... What they have been talking about in this was a bit of the initial demands, but does anyone realize that yearly we have to go through, again and again, in this system, in this resolution? The renouvellement d'équipement and the services, we have to go through as if it's new demand each time. It's endless.
When it started with Blue Cross in 2004, it doubled up the work and the blame left and right.